What police have to deal with

by LoveUniHateExams 49 Replies latest social current

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  truth_b_known

  Things will be even worse if the idiot Marxist Left has their way with gun control. - Data Dog

  Read Carl Marx. Marxism calls for the end of police. According to Marx, the police protect personal property. Communism prohibits people from owning property. When you see that the organization Black Lives Matter is a communist front it all makes sense.

  In addition there is a struggle in the U.S. There are those elected officials in Washington, D.C. who are making power grabs. They want to take power from local government and centralize it in Washington, D.C. The quickest way to do that is to end local law enforcement and replace it with a national police agency. That is why big media in the U.S. has been demonizing local law enforcement. 24 hour cable news media is just political propaganda.
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  TD

  Normally an officer detains you at a traffic stop. This can absolutely lead to an arrest, but there is a substantial legal difference between the two.
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  GrreatTeacher

  That's right, TD. Being pulled over means you are detained, not under arrest.

  They would have to Mirandize you and you would know it if you were placed under arrest. Part of your Miranda rights are that you have the right to remain silent. If they Mirandize you and then ask what seem like friendly questions, they are hoping that you give up your rights and talk. Don't do it. Just shut the hell up. They are fully able to continue the arrest process without your verbal input.

  Another thing you don't have to do is allow the police to search your car. If you're asked, "You don't mind if I look around in your car, do you?" the answer should always be no. Never give up your rights.

  Also, I'm surprised that this isn't more widely known. This was standard Civics education in the '80s.
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  TD

  As far as where you should, or should not pull over, this is how the courts interpret the law in my state:

  

  This is what is taught in officer conducted traffic schools and this is what it states in the driver's license manual itself. Clearly the judgment of the driver is involved too.

  Emergency shoulders are a luxury we very often don't have here (Because the freeway system has been under constant construction for the last forty years) and we've had a number of officers accidentally stuck and killed by passing motorists on our freeways as a result. Most officers are therefore appreciative if you show a little common sense.
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  GrreatTeacher

  That's what I was worried about: the officer and I being struck and killed!

  He ended up having me pull over not only where there was no shoulder, but on an exit lane on a curve!

  It ended up okay. I was polite and it all went smoothly. I know how traffic stops work. Circa DC traffic is horrendous to the point where if you followed all the rules to the tee, you'd never go anywhere.

  Gridlock is not just a euphemism; when everyone at an intersection is trying to make a left turn, but can't because traffic is bumper to bumper, no one can move and the light just cycles until tempers flare. Someone needs to blow the horn and cut someone off for any movement at all.

  And, when you need to get off and into a turn lane, but traffic is literally at a standstill, you need to cut someone off to make the turn. And when the previous redlight lets their right turns fill up the space in the turn lane, you will never move at all through that light. You have to go over to the left lane to move, then cut off somebody to get in the turn lane.

  Or, when you're at a jampacked tollbooth of 11 lanes that then cut back down to 3, all hell breaks loose! You have to keep moving, slowly cutting others off because if you stop, you will get rear ended. And then those 3 lanes are cut down to 2 and people start getting road ragey.

  Or, God forbid you're going the speed limit! That's a great way to get shot. If you dare to do the speed limit, it had better be in the right lane. The middle lane is for 10 miles over the speed limit and the left lane is for 20 miles over the speed limit. Or more. So, putt putting along at 55 when others are going 80 is truly dangerous.

  The point being that you're going to break a traffic law sooner or later by necessity and so getting pulled over is just a thing that happens occasionally. You need to know how to handle it expeditiously.
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  LoveUniHateExams

  The series of mistakes I listed cascade into each other inasmuch as each one in turn yanks the rug of justification out from under the next one down the line. With that in mind, I'm afraid I'm not following you on #2 and #3 - ok, my comments on #2 and #3 point out the responsibility of the army driver to comply with orders, something he repeatedly refused to do (I'm talking about the clear orders when just one cop is talking). The army guy ignored the clear order 'put your hands outside the window!' multiple times.

  The cops shouldn't have made mistakes. They should have issued clear orders. But the army guy ignored orders even when they were clear.

  Is non-compliance with orders a crime? Is refusing to follow along with detainment (e.g. put both hands outside the window) a crime?

  The George Floyd death, the Daunte Wright death, and this stop of the army guy all show a pattern: refusal to comply with cops, which leads to escalation.
  

  Seeing as this thread is about the crap cops have to deal with, I'll post another example.

  In this video a cop stops a white woman and asks her to provide proof of ownership of her vehicle. She refuses, claiming to be a 'free inhabitant', so the cop eventually uses force to make her comply.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQKxPYPn4Eo
  
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  LoveUniHateExams

  I've expressed my concern over the adoption of military tactics by our police many times.

  On the battlefield it may be okay to shoot an enemy captive when he startles you with a sneeze, but it's not okay when that person is your neighbor.

  Thing is, there are plenty of lunatics out there who don't behave in a neighbourly manner. If cops signal for a car to stop but the driver keeps driving, the cops' suspicions are heightened.

  If the cops try to detain a person and issue the order 'put your hands out of the window' but the person ignores it, then the cops may think the guy's got a gun or whatever.

  If cops try to arrest a person but the person suddenly runs back into his car, the cops don't know what's gonna happen.

  At least some cops have adopted 'military tactics' because there are plenty of stupid citizens, including some citizens who'll try and pull a gun on cops.
  
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  LoveUniHateExams

  The mainstream media must carry a lot of blame in the way they report shootings.

  I recently read about the 13-year-old boy who was shot dead.

  It's terrible but the media left out some key details: the kid was armed, walking around with an adult man at 2 in the morning, firing shots. One cop arrested the adult. The second cop chased the kid down an alley. The cop saw the kid had a gun and shouted at him to drop it. The kid, in one motion, dropped the gun behind a fence and put his hands toward the cop. In a split-second, the cop had to make a decision and fired one shot at the kid. The kid died, despite efforts to revive him.

  It will likely be ruled a justified, reasonable use of force.

  Here's a video breaking the sad incident down …

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylY31U7-l9s
  
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  LoveUniHateExams

  And here's another video breakdown.

  A cop was called to a fight. Then a 16 year old girl got shot.

  But, the 16 year old girl had pulled out a knife and was try to stab another girl in the throat. The officer saved the other girl's life.

  Unbelievable …

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfSXdhKnqWc

  The cops have to deal with a lot of crazy shit.
  
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  TD

  LUHE

  my comments on #2 and #3 point out the responsibility of the army driver to comply with orders, something he repeatedly refused to do (I'm talking about the clear orders when just one cop is talking)

  This is what I saw and heard: (Time stamps are from Gutierrez bodycam)

  18:36:16 - Crocker - Unintelligible (Gutierrez is exiting vehicle)

  18:36:20 - Crocker to Nazario "Put your hands out the window"

  18:36:23 - Crocker to Nazario "Put your hands out the window"

  18:36:26 - Crocker to Nazario "Turn the vehicle off and put your hands out the window"

  18:36:30 - Gutierrez to Crocker "How many occupants?"

  18:36:38 - Crocker to Nazario "Put your hands out the vehicle and turn the vehicle off" [sic]

  18:36:46 - Crocker to Nazario "Put your hands out the window"

  18:36:52 - Gutierrez to Crocker "Coming around your side"

  18:36:53 - Crocker to Nazario "Let's see your hands"

  18:36:58 - Crocker to Nazario "How many occupants are in your vehicle?"

  18:36:59 - Crocker to Nazario "How many occupants are in your vehicle?"

  18:37:00 - Gutierrez levels his pistol and we can now finally see what Nazario's hands are out the window.

  I'm going to have to disagree with the description of, "clear orders when just one cop is talking."

  Crocker's orders become mixed almost immediately and are dangerously contradictory at about the 20 second point.

  The cops shouldn't have made mistakes. They should have issued clear orders. But....

  I keep hearing the word, "but" as justification for two officers going even farther down the bad path they've taken but it doesn't work that way. The law doesn't work that way. Law enforcement doesn't work that way.

  Honest questions for you LUHE:

  Do you understand the type of stop this was? (Gutierrez states it at 18:36:20)

  Do you understand that these stops must rest on reasonable suspicion the suspect is a dangerous felon?

  And that without that reasonable suspicion, the officers are on the wrong side of the law themselves?

  With respect, LUHE, you've picked a horrible example. And we haven't even gotten to the threats of false charges and the ruining Nazaio's career yet.