Awake #4/2016: Homosexuality

by Designer Stubble 174 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • M*A*S*H

    @Cofty, if I am misrepresenting your views please explain why you are struggling to call a spade a spade. The WBTS is homophobic.

    It's nice to see you now attempting to take the high moral ground after your ad hominem straw man post above accusing me of being puerile.

    I think anyone reading my first post on this topic will see the truth of this matter.

  • M*A*S*H


    If you stopped typing for a moment you would see that I am addressing the limitations of pedantic definitions and trying to lead you towards a more interesting conversation.

    What's that I smell? Oh yes... it's arrogance

    Your only interest seems to be in throwing around insults and playing to the gallery.

    I have no interest in the "playing to the gallery". I rarely post, over the last 10 years of being on this forum I have posted 324 times. You clearly do not have any clue what you are talking about.

    Do you have something more thoughtful to ask apart from your crowd-pleasing displays of faux outrage?

    Yes Cofty you are the diviner of posters' motivations. You with all your wisdom can identify when a poster is not really outraged. Not only that, my efforts to demonstrate the WBTS is homophobic and deserving of the label is not 'thoughtful' enough for the mighty Cofty.

  • LoveUniHateExams

    Interesting discussion here, particularly between Cofty and Mash.

    One thing that I've noticed: making Western anti-gay videos, saying homosexual acts are wrong, disapproving of gay marriage seems to cause more outrage amongst gay communities and heterosexual progressives than when extremists push gay people off tall buildings in the name of their religion.

    Why is this? It seems that Western gay people are of more worth than gay people from other areas around the globe. Are some elements of gay communities and progressives racist?

  • cofty

    Good point LUHE.

    It's human nature to get a kick out of public displays of outrage. You see it on Facebook every day - "Click if you don't like (insert today's target here) ".

    It even has a name - "Outrage Porn".

    Outrage porn, also known as outrage culture, refers to any type of media that is designed to invoke outrage for the purpose getting traffic or attention online. The term outrage porn was coined by political cartoonist and essayist Tim Kreider of The New York Times.

    Of course if you might get some pushback because you are criticising another group that can claim victimhood that's socially risky.

  • rebelfighter

    It is not just the gays, it is also the women and the children. Why can't the JWS treat all humans as their EQUALS?

    How about -- Love one another. I think that the Bible does state that somewhere, if I am not mistaken in multiple places.

    This religion is so stuck in the dark ages it is pathetic and has so many double standards. R&F are to give up all material pocessions while the GB and their helpers parade around in their expensive suits and gold watches and rings. Live the simple life while they live in luxury in a resort in upstate NY.

    And if you think what what comes out of those GB mouths is spiritual well I would recommend you visit a real church.

    OK rant over.

  • cofty

    Who are you preaching to Rebelfighter?

    We know it's a dangerous and dehumanising cult. Many of us voluntarily gave up families rather than stay in the religion. Some of us have done a lot to oppose the cult and help others get out.

    The topic is their view of homosexuality.

    The bible condemns it. Their religion is predicated on the belief that this is the word of god.

    Anybody who thinks they could permit gay marriage without totally destroying their organisation is living in a fantasy world. Exactly what would you have them do?

  • snugglebunny
    Anybody who thinks they could permit gay marriage without totally destroying their organisation is living in a fantasy world

    Therefore are JW's actually homophobic? If permitting gay marriage would indeed destroy their organisation, then their fear is actually well founded. If it's well-founded and not irrational, then it's not a phobia. Hatred doesn't always equal phobia. Phobia definition, a persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it

  • cofty

    As I have said a few times semantic debates about labels don't interest me.

    SBF and a couple of others have called for them to change their stance to homosexuality.

    If they did publish an article permitting gay marriage and allowing men in a gay marriage to be appointed as elders what do you think the reaction would be?

    In my view it would be the end of the organisation. 

  • M*A*S*H


    I think you are right, western internet forums will probably have featured more discussions regarding the recent JW cartoon than the murder of homosexuals by ISIS. I do not think the reason for this is racism or people getting "a kick out of public displays of outrage". Sure some SJWs fall into this bracket, but I very much doubt it explains the issue.

    Some of the reasons why I personally think we see this issue:

    • I would be more inclined to post here (or on other forums) if the issue at hand directly effects my own community. I do not think that makes me racist. Just like I would probably post more regarding 'JW shunning' rather than 'Catholic Excommunication'... that does not mean I value the people's suffering differently.
    • Nobody questions if throwing homosexuals from buildings is wrong, so what discussion is there to have? I think and hope almost everybody would agree!
    • Western media outlets cover the ISIS story fully, the JW cartoon is not.
    • In the West various religions attempt to sneak homophobia through the backdoor by attempting to dress their homophobic views up as non-homophobic. When people see this type of double speak I think they are likely to call it out.
    • I think people living in Western countries expect equal rights for gay people. When they see homophobia in their own community they are very likely to react. I do not think this is a show of racism toward gay communities abroad.
    In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. [Martin Luther King, Jr.]
  • LoveUniHateExams

    You make a good point, Mash.

    People do tend to talk more about what's happening closer to home.

    But, let's agree that there's no moral equivalent between making an anti-gay cartoon and throwing gays from tall buildings. One is much, much worse than the other. With this in mind, genuine puzzlement at the lack of outrage among gay communities and progressives in the West at what extremists are doing 1000s of miles away remains.

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