by Witness 007 45 Replies latest jw experiences
DISILLUSIONED JW:
You could try your local library and might get lucky..However, I heard years ago that books critical of the JW religion have frequently been known to just ‘disappear’ from local libraries!..Gee I wonder why? 😒
You might be better off either ordering it online if you want your own copy or have somebody lend you theirs.
The books "Crisis of conscience" and "In search of Christian Freedom" did a lot in bidding the JW religious organization bye.
A challenge to refute the book was an exercise in futility.
After completely digesting the materials personally with a lot of note taking. I ensure I was able to see the practical benefits of the book for another two to three years within the set up of Jehovah's religious organization before exiting.
@ disillusioned you will find CoC and ISCoF really interesting to read. The moniker used by a person on a public forum led me to CoC, I discovered he wrote the second one ISCoF while reading CoC book. Immediately I completed CoC, I read ISCoF.
I tend to like the title of all the chapters of these books. It is after reading you will appreciate why these chapters are coined that way.
So Ray Franz is now a Golden Calf?
Listen - Ray Franz didn't rescue ANYBODY. All he did was give you some information that YOU processed in YOUR rational mind. Then YOU took action and YOU bore the slings and arrows of JW.org.
Thank your intelligent rational mind. Without it, you'd still be a Dub.
I left the WTB&TS when I realized it was not a "righteous" organization. This was in the mid-1970s, years before Ray Franz left.
If the books are not in any of the local libraries, I can request it via ILL (Inter Library Loan). I borrowed a lot of books that way. Yes I can buy the books on eBay; I think that the Franz book or two that I read years ago I obtained that way, and if so I later sold I it/them on eBay.
Before when I read the books I didn't dwell on what was said about what happened behind the scenes in the WT organization since I couldn't (or thought I couldn't) prove (or determine) if such claims were true. But now maybe I can determine such, simply by determining how well the explanations are of the visible actions of the WT. I am now much more suspicious of the WT and see more bad actions of the WT than I detected 15+ years ago.
In the library closest to me, a number of books promoting atheism and some books promoting evolution have been removed from the library by one (or more) reference librarians. A reference librarian told me that books are removed if they are rarely checked out. And, in the case of science books they are removed if they are old and thus considered obsolete (especially if another library branch in the county network has it), and that they are replaced with new science books. But I noticed that a much larger local library holds unto books for many decades.
Disillusioned;
The Book 'Crisis of Conscience' is readily available on Amazon if you feel at liberty to use Amazon. That was the 2018 edition of the book. A woman named Deborah Dykstra now has the copyrights to both of Ray Franz' books.
The Mike/Kim youtube channel uploaded a video in March 2018 when the latest version of CoC became available by Deborah Dykstra.
I'm jus saying this in case you weren't aware.
Anyway, regards to In Search of Christian Freedom, there was no word yet of it's re-release yet. Mrs Dykstra mentioned she would release it again, but that was 4 years ago now. Hope she is doing well. She did mention she was struggling at the time of CoC that she lost her late husband. Hope she is OK these days.
DISILLUSIONED JW:
Regarding what the reference librarians told you: I can perfectly understand why obsolete science books are removed.
As far as those other books that are ‘rarely’ checked out: what about all the other miscellaneous books; cook books, various autobiographies, novels about ‘Lassie’ or ‘Hardy Boys’, etc. that can still be found in some libraries?..Surely people aren’t checking them all out left and right? So, I have a problem with reference librarians removing books on atheism, evolution, etc..This sounds like it could reflect a bias on the part of some of these librarians. Maybe they are religious local ladies? Also, what if JWs work in the local library? Can you imagine if a doubting JW went into their local library inquiring about CofC? I’m sure that would certainly be reported back!
Regarding the books which have been removed, I am talking about from the library closest to my home (which is in a small city on the edge of a biggest city of the state). Though some evolution books from the 1980s and older (ones I needed use to look up quotes from the WT Creation book of the 1980s, are gone many other much newer evolution books are there, including newer editions of Darwin's Origin of the Species book.)
Entire shelves of reference books (including ones on science and technology), including a set of Britannica Encyclopedia were removed, without them being offered for sale to patrons of the library. I was told that was because people hardly use them anymore, especially since people can find up to date reference information on the internet now. It was also because the library did so to free up space to install study rooms in that area for patrons; they said patrons wanted more of such rooms. However, the small city library does subscribe to the online Britannica Encyclopedia and provides free access to it to patrons of the library. The library also got rid of all of the microfiche (and machine viewing machines for such) and most of all of their microfilm (but keeping the NY Times microfilm), saying now people hardly request such. They said it was also because the big library in the big city has such. [In contrast the large old central library branch for the big city seems to hold onto their books forever, and I've seem many atheist books there.]
The Friends of the local small city library conducts large events of book (and DVD and CD) sales (mostly of books and other items donated to them, but some are ex-libary items from the small city library), to raise funds for the small city library. The sales take place inside the library - one will take place from this Wednesday through Sunday (with Sunday being clearance pricing day).
One of the former reference desk librarians (in my small city) was a devout Christian (who is also very nice) and I got the impression she probably decided to remove some of the atheist books since I know she had authority to decide which books to order for the library and which to remove from the library. But I don't know if she removed any atheist books. I don't even know if any atheistic books have been removed, I just thought some were since I don't seem to see as many on the shelves as I did before, but perhaps those are simply checked out more frequently now. Reference desk librarians have told me they track usage of items in the library. When items are hardly checked out they remove them and order something else which they think will interest patrons more. The library has much less space than the central branch of the big city library (which even has closed stacks of shelves of books and off-site storage). There is a book case in the library (or used to be such, but maybe now it is in the Friends store) of books which the library offers for sale (as ex-library books) very cheap - but more than 95% of those are fiction.
I took the initiative and wrote him a letter, yes, a letter, explaining how his book had confirmed my concerns about WT teachings. He wrote back right away with a 3-page letter. I mentioned that I was going by where he and Cynthia when we went to FL. He invited us to come to dinner and spend some time visiting. It became an annual thing. He and his wife, Cynthia, were so cute as a couple, had funny things to talk about in their lives as jws and what their new life was like. Ray would take me into his office and we would talk about "serious" things and his doings, and my husband would visit with Cynthia in the kitchen. I met many ex-jws, current jws (yes indeed) and ex-jws that become part of another Christian group. All able to talk and respect each other, but no proselytizing. I was so sad when Ray was injured and died and Cynthia followed shortly after that. I wish everyone could have seen Ray and his photo albums of his life and Cynthia together. I am so glad that his books are still in print, and still have good info that can benefit all jws (who read them) and ex-jws.
Thanks Beth Sarim for telling me about Deborah Dykstra's edition of Crisis of Conscience. I think I would prefer to buy that edition, provided I can be confident that she didn't change any of the wording of what Franz wrote. That is because I read the following about it.
Dykstra's edition includes an epilogue by her in which she mentions her experiences. She was a friend of Raymond Franz and his wife. She had also been a regular pioneer and a temporary special pioneer, but is now out of the religion and has a number of negative views about the religion. I think the epilogue mentions those things in detail.
Perhaps I will check out both editions from the library (most likely by Inter Library Loan), so I can decide which one I prefer, before I purchase an edition.
Disullioned;
No problem.
Might I add that....like I've always said if it were not for the internet I would have never known about a man named Ray Franz not even to mention any such books.7
I was just a grade-school kid when this apostapurge happened around 1979-80.
I was just told in the 1980's to avoid any of these books like the ''plague'', circa a 1986 WT study.
Obviously,,,,,it doesn't take rocket-science to understand why, WT is a business & it potentially hurts their bottom dollar.
