Do you believe in a Rapture that the Churches teach instead of living on earth forever

by Alex Williams 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Alex Williams
    Alex Williams

    Its taken from 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

    Now Jesus compared the end to the days of Noah

    But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be

    Why did he compare the two and does it give us a clue to which teaching is the right one?

    So obviously he is thinking of a time factor and conditions of the two events ,how long was the days of Noah before the flood came ?was it the same day that he built the ark? Jehovah's Witnesses teach he said presence instead of coming in Matt .

    A rapture will be a one day event where Jesus appear and those saved will be caught up with Jesus to heaven that's the teaching of the Church. My point is not only was he thinking of the conditions as the same just before both events but he was comparing a time factor of the two events as well thats why what was said when asked when would the things be is important as to the time factor Coming or Presence ,Coming is a one day event as I mentioned if the correct teaching is rapture ,Presence is a long time event not a one day event ,how else can the building of an ark which took many many years be compared to a one day coming.How do I know the correct word is Presence is what happened after Jesus was resurrected in Acts he was asked this:

    Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?

    Why would they ask this question in view of what they asked in Matt about when would these things be,he was thinking of a long time away in the future not right then while he was these in Israel plus he taught his Kingdom was not earthly but a heavenly Kingdom so it follows they must have been asking when would his Kingdom come in Matt 24 so it couldn't be coming since he was already right there ,they didnt fully understand his teaching of the Kingdom ,they wanted something done right there not a distance future thats why he answered ;

    Why would they ask what would be the sigh of youre coming when they didnt think he was leaving in the first place otherwise they would never have asked ;

    My kingdom cis not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, dmy servants would have been fighting, that eI might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.

    So it must be a heavenly kingdom not earthly but they still asked that question as to the earth.So which one is correct

    Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence*+ and of the conclusion of the system of things?”*+

    Again in view of Acts they would never have asked Jesus when would he be coming

    back again

  • Tenacious

    First, the majority of users on this forum no longer believe in the Bible so you'll likely get sarcastic remarks and silly answers. And while I don't agree with many of my fellow friends on this forum I respect their opinions.

    Having said that let me say that scripture is crystal clear on the Paradise mentioned in the NT three times referring to a heavenly place of residency for those resurrected.

  • neat blue dog
    neat blue dog

    Yes, paradise is in heaven. Not a single reference to resurrection to earth mentioned in the new testament. Explicitly the exact opposite:

  • peacefulpete

    The modern "rapture" teaching is a recent invention.

  • peacefulpete

    Also, it is quite reasonable and evident that at least the first generation of Jewish Christians held a very typically Jewish notion of a restoration of Jewish cult and culture, a return to an idealized past. And politically, a Messiah would destroy the enemies of the Jews. Many Jews (but by no means all) held a wider universalizing theology, suggesting the whole world would be affected by this Messiah's actions. Christianity was born from this Messianistic current within Judaism. When the temple was destroyed and time passed Christians naturally reinvented themselves to become "spiritualists" and "theologians" first and "messianists" second. After only a couple decades Christianity splintered dozens of ways in an attempt to stay relevant. This group became politically active while another sought esoteric truths and mysteries. The Gospel Mark was produced during a period of transition. Its possible some form of it existed prior to 70CE but final elements were added post 70 and maybe post 135CE.

    So, if you want an easy answer to the initial question, there isn't one. Some Christians imagined a revived Jewish State while others hoped for life in another realm, while others held ideas so esoteric and foreign to modern Christians as to make the question mute.

  • Alex Williams
    Alex Williams

    Paradise in the bible has never been associated with the heavenly realm :

    the garden where according to the Bible Adam and Eve first lived

    The Greek word, originally used in Septuagint to mean "Garden of Eden,

    Churches believe paradise is heaven but if so then when Jesus told the thief he would be with him in paradise that day as believed in Church Jesus told Mary he had not yet ascended,and didn't for 40 more days,so the thief was in the grave that day not heaven

    John 3:13

    No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of Man

    So Moses and other faithful men haven't went to heaven so why would a thief

    The way to heaven had not opened up until Jesus ascended back to heaven presenting his ransom sacrifice

    If heaven is paradise why didnt God tell Adam when he died he would go to heaven,answer is he was not created to die but to live forever,If there is a heaven for the faithful as tought in Church then there is a fiery hell as well,the problem with that teaching is he God a God of warning never told Adam of such a place instead told him he would return to the dust if disobedient

  • Alex Williams
    Alex Williams

    "Having said that let me say that scripture is crystal clear on the Paradise mentioned in the NT three times referring to a heavenly place of residency for those resurrected"

    Job who God was very well pleased with didnt go to heaven when he didn't as I showed the verse where no man has yet at that time gone to heaven ,Job expected to come back to the earth

    New American Standard Bible
    "If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait Until my change comes.

    Job 14:13
    If only You would hide me in Sheol and conceal me until Your anger passes. If only You would appoint a time for me and then remember me.

    Nothing about being hidden in heaven

  • Alex Williams
    Alex Williams

    "Not a single reference to resurrection to earth mentioned in the new testament"

    John 5:28, 29

    All those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out.

    These are on earth the grave not in heaven,if already in heaven how is it they need to hear his voice they would already be with Jesus ,makes no sense that teaching

    Acts 17:31

    Because he has set a day on which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has provided a guarantee to all men by resurrecting him

    These must be back on earth not in heaven

  • The Fall Guy
    The Fall Guy

    From a scriptural P.O.V., Psalm 37:9,11,29, Matthew 5:5, Revelation 21:3,4 all seem to imply that sooner or later there is going to be a "mankind" who will be populate an earth which has been cleansed of pain & death, and live forever upon it.

    If a heavenly calling awaits faithful Christians - as many assume - then it's anyone's guess exactly who these earthly inhabitants are going to be.

  • nicolaou

    Your topic title asks us which of two options we believe;

    1. Heavenly rapture.
    2. Eternal life on a paradise earth.

    Please put down your Bible and consider the very obvious third option.


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