The absurdity of petitionary prayer

by logansrun 56 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    Of all the neurotic and irrational ideas religion has come up with, the notion that God(s) intervenes in the flow of natural events due to a human's prayer has got to be one of the craziest. Why do I say this?

    Let us illustrate the lunacy of the situation. You are a doctor who is in a room with a sick child -- crying, near death. You have, in your possession, a serum that will either cure the child or at least lessen his pain. If you and the child were alone in the room what would you do? Give the child the serum, of course.

    Ah, but let's say that you decide to wait until there are more people in the room to do this. The child's parents show up and start pleading with you to help their little one. "No," you say, "I will only intervene when more people show up and ask me to help." Some others show up -- relatives, nurses, friends, even strangers. "I will not intervene until you start a petition in the neighborhood for me to help" you say. After hundreds of men and women sign the petition you give the child the serum. Have you done anything great or noble? Should the parents thank you? I will leave you to decide.

    Obviously the above scenario closely resembles the situation God is in if you believe in that sort of thing. Millions, no, billions of believers pray to God asking Him for help, whether great or small. As a Witness I did this countless times, often praying for people in other countries I had no knowledge of. When Elisabeth Smart was missing her parents asked for total strangers to pray for her safety and return. In fact, they attributed her amazing recovery to petitionary prayer.

    Why does God play these games? If He knows all and sees all why does he need humans to ask Him to do the right thing? Is that not like the example I just gave of the doctor and the child? People often pray in large numbers for the same thing -- the aforementioned situation with Smart, prayer for nations to stop persecuting Christians, prayer for certain liberal Supreme Court Justices to retire -- and it is thought that such masses of people praying have greater effect, that God is somehow tallying up the quantity and quality of prayers before he intervenes. (Like it or not, that IS what believers think, even though they won't say it so matter-of-factly) Confusing? Try sadistic.

    Is this not anthropomorphism? No, I cannot even conclude that. What human being would be so callous as to "answer" prayers in such a way. What loving father would ever wait till he was asked to do the right thing -- and then only doing so in such a manner as to cause so much confusion?

    There was an experience in an Awake magazine a few years ago of a man, an elder, who had prayed for her daughters safety while she was traveling across the country. She -- pregnant with child at the time -- was brutally murdered along with her child. The father said that he could not understand why Jehovah didn't protect her. But then he reasoned that Jehovah did in fact protect her -- that is, spiritually protect her. What specious reasoning -- sad even. Just what does that mean that God protected her spiritually? Why not simply conclude that God just didn't come through. Or, more likely still, that He just doesn't exist.

    When you think about it, I mean really think about it, you will see that petitionary prayer is one of the greatest delusions known to man.

    Bradley

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Agreed. Since god waits to do anything until hundreds or thousands of devotees are screaming in his ears, one could wonder how he ever got motivated to create the universe and humans, in the first place. Or, what were his reasons, since there was no one to motivate him to do something. (Ok the angels are supposed to have been there, but are they not just obedient servants? On the other hand, what motivated god to create them?)

    SS

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    When I was back there in seminary school
    There was a person there
    Who put forth the proposition
    That you can petition the Lord with prayer
    Petition the lord with prayer
    Petition the lord with prayer
    You cannot petition the lord with prayer!

    Can you give me sanctuary
    I must find a place to hide
    A place for me to hide

    Can you find me soft asylum
    I can't make it anymore
    The Man is at the door...

    -- The Doors, "The Soft Parade"

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    Would not praying for humility, faith or any other quality diminish our free will as well? If God gives me "extra faith" because I pray to him doesn't that take away what I would have accomplished on my own? Why would he be pleased with me if he directly gave me something which I did not possess?

    The questions just keep on coming when you believe in a personal God.

    Bradley

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Stop, once in a while, and you may get answers instead of just questions
    Those who have a "personal God" (rather than a distant JW one) generally seem to have less questions than yourself. I'd suggest that that is through contentment rather than ignorance.
    Maybe the big guy will ease up on you and give you a spiritual experience of your own...
    ...what do you think it would take, for you personally?

    You already agree that the human mind is an incredible thing - why doesn't the idea of a large number of people focussing on the same thing, inspire you with hope?

    Regardless of whether you believe God did it or not, it has been known to happen.
    In addition, your maligning comments don't add up, when you consider individual petitions. I'd reckon on a pretty good score, when it comes to God answering my prayers. But then, I tend to try to help myself first, rather than take every little thing to Him.

    Btw, what's abs-rudity? the absence of rudeness?

  • amac
    amac

    Logansrun, I agree that it is absurd the way certain people can attribute anything, whether it good or bad, to God. The Israelites are a good example. As a JW I've always wondered the same thing as you have mentioned. We were also always taught that if we really need something to repeatedly petition God in prayer (in fact this point was brought out in a recent bookstudy.) I always wondered why an omniscient God would need us to repeat something over and over. Can't he just read our heart and see that we REALLY want it or need it? I never understood that.

    why doesn't the idea of a large number of people focussing on the same thing, inspire you with hope?

    LittleToe, I can agree with what your saying that maybe their is something to prayer, either alone or in groups. But I would have to say that mantras, meditations or chants could probably produce the same effect, and assuming everything is done by God is nothing more than a theory.

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Maybe prayer sometimes focus's our minds so that we actually help ourselves.

    Maybe God isn't as we perceive Him, and answers prayers in ways we don't even realise.

    Maybe the answer is no sometimes!

    Englishman.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    My last prayer was a one liner to a guy who wrote a book. I asked for somebody who personified his book. Within 5 minutes someone was there.

    SS

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    Little Toe,

    Stop, once in a while, and you may get answers instead of just questions

    NIce pithy saying, LT. You see, I tried the "just wait and see" attitude for a long time. JW's are pretty good at that. I asked God for ball of flame to appear before me once, just so that I could see He was there. Nope -- flameless. I tried asking God for a lot of other things like can he help me with my "secret sins" **snicker**. Seems I got my prayers answered about as much when I was praying to God as when I was praying to Ringo Starr.

    Those who have a "personal God" (rather than a distant JW one) generally seem to have less questions than yourself.

    Ah, the 'ol "you weren't a real Christian" routine. Sorry, the JWs are many things, but many (most?) of them do view Jehovah as having a personal impact on their life and their prayers. Did I happen to mention they also are delusional?

    I'd suggest that that is through contentment rather than ignorance.

    I'd suggest that it is through magic mushrooms.

    Maybe the big guy will ease up on you and give you a spiritual experience of your own...
    ...what do you think it would take, for you personally?

    How's about a fully formed long-legged vixen to miraculously appear in my room tonight. I'll be waiting....hehe. (Seriously, I did ask God for a sign many times, like I said. Seems the Old Man just doesn't perform the miracles he used to)

    You already agree that the human mind is an incredible thing - why doesn't the idea of a large number of people focussing on the same thing, inspire you with hope?

    What inspires me with hope is people using their brains in a productive manner. Yes, the mind is complex, but it must obey the rules of the laws of Nature. I don't believe in ESP either, mind you.

    Regardless of whether you believe God did it or not, it has been known to happen.

    Really? Where? When? Whom?

    In addition, your maligning comments don't add up, when you consider individual petitions. I'd reckon on a pretty good score, when it comes to God answering my prayers.

    Well, I probably won't win an argument with you here since you seem quite set in your beliefs. Yes, it just might be true but don't you think I have asked some pretty darn good questions that you fail to approach with a mile-long pole? And don't get me started on how we can fool ourselves.....

    Btw, what's abs-rudity? the absence of rudeness?

    Haha...I changed the title of the thread. Thanks.

    Bradley

  • gumby
    gumby
    The father said that he could not understand why Jehovah didn't protect her. But then he reasoned that Jehovah did in fact protect her

    The bible God ALWAYS wins bradley.......you should know that!

    Gumby

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