Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer 240 Replies latest jw experiences

  • DJS


    We don't blame god because we don't believe in her. You are missing the point. We are countering your beliefs and statements about her with a rational, analytical response that shows, if she existed, she is a monster or she simply doesn't care about her creation. But if you and those like you point to the bible - IN ANY MANNER - as proof she exists, that the bible is in any manner inspired by her or meant as a guide for humans or to help us cretans learn about her, then she is a moral monster.

    It's called rational debate. I know you aren't used to it but try to follow along.

    We know it is man who is responsible for all of this carnage.

    As others have rightly said about the bible: in for a penny, in for a pound. Picking and choosing which parts of it are inspired and which parts are to be ignored results in what we have. Thousands of different x-tian belief systems, all of which can use the bible in support of their beliefs and actions, which include the destruction by your god of billions in this end of time period (gag) and after the thousand year 'rain' of terror by your god, billions more who have assumedly obtained perfection.

    And, you place yourself in immediate conflict by calling yourself this name: Christian. Because there is only one source for that belief system. One.

    In for a penny. In for a pound.

  • prologos
    Rf: "Why is it that those of YOU who no longer believe in God seem to think you can blame God for all the bad things

    Why do you think those that do not believe in "god", -- atheists, or deists ( who do believe in a creator, but not in a personally involved "god"), would then turn around and blame him for what bad happened to you? don't forget, even some believers blame satan, and the talking snake.

  • Lieu

    I would guess so Punkofnice.

    For the rank and file, everything is Mosaic Law, fire, brimstone, and friggin' fear. Fear, fear, and more fear. If you are told Christ isn't your mediator too, then not a single bit of the NT blessings are for you ... and you aren't an Israelite, so the OT isn't for you either. The entire Bible isn't for you. Why bother under the JW "understanding"? There's no point.

    I understand.

  • Lieu

    If you don't believe in God, then you can't BLAME God. Yes or no? You can't blame the God of the Bible for being "cruel "because he doesn't exist to you ... si o no?

    If you claim no God exists, then why say he's cruel? You don't believe he exists so the "cruelty" claim from him doesn't exist. One who doesn't exist can't be "cruel". He can't be anything. What are you ... CrAzY???!!!!???

    You're just talking out your ass. Que puta madre!!!!! It's not convincing. You make no sense.

    I like others here have decades of hanging around people (JWs) who make no f'ng sense. You've got to try harder on this subject.

  • rebelfighter

    What brought on my rant was the post by Bonsai 3 hours ago in regard to the CNN report about child who lost his life. WHY is the state not testing the rivers and lakes? The state I just moved from tested all swimming areas weekly.

    I work tirelessly for children with birth defects and children who get cancer none of these parents ever blame their Supreme Being they may pray a lot but they do not blame. I have a very good friend who's granddaughter is fighting leukemia right now, never once would they think to blame God. Research hopefully one day will tell us why and prevent more kids from going through all these dreadful birth defects and deceases. This is why I spend so much of my time doing charity work for the children.

    My grandson was born one side of his body is growing faster then the other. He will require multiple surgeries throughout his life we are not blaming God.

    My mother beat me as a child till I was 14 and I told her you touch me one more time you will pick your self off the floor lady. I did not blame for giving me a wicked mother I blamed all the alcohol she drank.

    God is not to blame look hard enough you will get to the root or the cause of the problem.

    Again that Bible was written by men and they ONLY claim it was inspired by GOD.

  • punkofnice
    Why is it that those of YOU who no longer believe in God seem to think you can blame God for all the bad things that happens in this world. It totally infuriates me when you claim to take a book written by a bunch of old men claiming it was inspired by God.

    Well, speaking for myself, I don't blame god, I blame humans. I cannot blame that which I do not believe in. It may look that way, but it's true. Besides, which god does one blame?

  • cofty
    I don't subscribe to it as the Mosaic Law doesn't apply to Christians. It is finished. - Lieu

    John Newton was a slave trader. He repented and later wrote "Amazing Grace". If I was condemning him for his previous conduct that would be harsh and you would have a point.

    I am not. I am judging god for advocating slavery. A sort of slavery that is as bad as any other. The sort where people own other people as possessions. Chattel that can be passed on from father to son, possessions who can legally beaten so badly that they die of their injuries the next day and the abuser has no guilt. The justification that god gives for this inhumanity is that "he is his property."

    And thousands of these slaves were virgins whose families were slaughtered by god's armies and whose mothers and baby brothers were butchered in cold blood. Then the virgins had their head shaved to add insult to injury, and after a month they were raped by their new owners with god's blessing. God's High Priest got 32 such virgin sex slaves all to himself as a gift from the loving god and father of Jesus.

    It doesn't matter if you can show that god doesn't like slavery anymore. He is "the same yesterday and today and tomorrow", so the fact that he advocated slavery for centuries proves he is not the deity christians claim him to be.

    Your god has the moral compass of an ISIS warlord.

    Also, you are mistaken about what I believe. To think every Christian believes Jesus Christ is God Almighty is your JW coming back. Squash that please. - Lieu

    Actually I was a born-again christian for 9 years after leaving the cult. I know a lot about the various Christologies on offer. Take your pick. Either Jesus was god from eternity, or he was with god from eternity. In either case the god of the OT was "the god and father of the lord Jesus". Jesus worshipped and adored the god who commanded slavery, kidnap, rape and infanticide. Therefore Jesus is also a moral reprobate.

    If you don't believe in God, then you can't BLAME God. Yes or no? You can't blame the God of the Bible for being "cruel "because he doesn't exist to you - Lieu

    Nobody is blaming god for anything. Why do theists find it so hard to follow a simple conditional argument.

    "If your assertions about the god of christianity are true, then..........."

    My point is NOT that god is evil. My point is that things christians say about god contradict other things christians say about him. Therefore your story about god is internally contradictory and cannot be reconciled.

    You have not even made a start on answering this challenge.

  • cofty

    rebelfighter - You are describing a god who is absent in the world and a god who has left no written record of his actions or his character.

    You may as well be an atheist.

  • rebelfighter


    Thank you I have always blamed humans for things that have gone wrong and I also look for the human element that causes what goes wrong.


    I absolutely am NOT an atheist as my girlfriend who is an ordained minister and the highest ranking Elder in her church and her husband will attest to I am one of the most spiritual persons they have ever met. I just meet God on my own terms. Trust me God and I have definitely had a roller coaster ride during these 65 years we have had some real highs and some mighty lows. As a single parent I did a damn good job raising 2 kids into very fine adults without the help of a man. I ran a very successful business and at the same time fought for other people's kids while fighting for my kids rights and did a ton of charity work for children.

    My God was with me every step of the way. I do not believe in Religion or those fairytale in that Bible.

  • cofty

    Rebel - Without the bible there is not a single statement you can make about god.

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