TV TRAILER: ‘Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath: The Jehovah’s Witnesses' Two Hour Special Event - A&E

by MaybeSo 61 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Giordano

    Simon how many people have been killed by Scientology? And for gods sake how many JW's died needlessly for want of a blood transfusion? That's the only issue. They died because they were indoctrinated and manipulated to think this was god's will.

    I think there was a suicide or two....... maybe more with Scientology. God knows how many died with Christian Scientists. Bottom line they are all dangerous miserable religions.

    The blood ban has caused many many deaths. We used to say a thousand a year because it mirrored Jonestown............ hell you could go on line and see what that field looked like with hundreds of dead people. It made the JW deaths for want of a Blood Transfusion a perfect opportunity to see how devastating this doctrine is but.....its many times more then Jonestown.

    Here are the facts:

    How many JW’S die each year for want of a Blood Transfusion?According to the Red Cross and various National Blood Banks 4.5 million American lives are saved each year by blood transfusions. ...

    Since JW’S make up .8% of the US population. .8% of those 4.5 million who needed a transfusion is 3600. So roughly speaking 3600 JWs plus or minus will face this situation each year in the US alone.

    Here’s a short list of the serious medical problems that call for blood:

    Children being treated for Cancer, premature infants, Children having heart surgery. Serious Anemic issues are treated with blood transfusions to build up iron.

    Cancer, Organ Transplants typically require 40 units of blood, 30 units of platelets, 25 units of fresh frozen plasma.

    Trauma patients. Open heart surgery often requires platelet transfusions to survive.

    Sickle cell disease can call for four pints of blood per month.

    Giving birth if the mother hemorrhages.

    cAmong the 4.5 million that need blood are Trauma victim’s. Victim’s of vehicle accidents, various types of workplace accidents, fire, criminal assault, falls etc. There are 192,000 deaths from Trauma per year on average in the US. It is the leading cause of death for people age 1 to 44.

    Out of the 192,000 deaths...... 1536 are JW’s ( representing .8 of the trauma deaths).

    With Trauma......... blood loss is often the most immediate emergency. Some blood loss victims may need transfusions of 50 pints or more of red blood cells.

    “After a traumatic injury, hemorrhage is responsible for over 35% of pre-hospital deaths and over 40% of deaths within the first 24 hours,[1] second only to the rates of death due to severe central nervous system injury. A cascade of life-threatening medical problems can begin with severe hemorrhage, and many of these occur simultaneously: 1) hemorrhage, 2) impaired resuscitation, 3) shock, 4) inflammation and 5) coagulopathy (Fig. 1). The severity of each problem is commonly associated with the extent of overall blood loss.

    Low blood pressure due to blood loss indicates immediate complications, including the incidence of multiple organ failure and life-threatening infections.[2, 3]”

    So among those 1536 JWs that died from Traumatic injuries 537 died before they were even brought to the hospital. 40% or 614 died in the hospital within the first 24 hours directly from hemorrhage . We don’t know how many would have survived if they were transfused within that first 24 hour period. Which leaves 389 JW’s who died later on from their injuries which without a transfusion made it impossible, in many cases, to survive.

    So if the math is correct 3600 JW’s on average need a life saving blood transfusion every year. Noting how much blood is needed for the high risk procedures....... the witness who refuses blood could have died of something that may have been treatable. We can’t be certain how many lived and how many died without one. Or how many could have been saved if they were able to get a blood transfusion or even a blood cell salvage....using their own blood?

    Overall I used to think that at least 1000 JW’s died World Wide each year for want of a blood transfusion. Looking at the above numbers and seeing how many different life saving treatments depend on blood I am now leaning toward one to two thousand out of the 3600 that needed a life saving blood transfusion died for want of that blood in the USA alone.

  • dubstepped

    @Scenic Viewer - Yep, looks like Fifth to me. I don't know anyone else but I don't watch a lot of Youtube videos. Most that I've actually watched are from him. Nice to see him on the panel.

  • steve2

    Point taken Morpheus. You could need to point out that the "girl" was not a minor - which I suppose is why you used the word Pedo-ish. But if you pointed that out, your comment would not be so potentially devastating. Blindness is no respecter of point of view.....

  • TheListener

    I'm gonna watch it.

    Hopefully it will be informative and presented in a profession manner.

    I doubt my wife will watch it. But me and the kids will.

    Soon the cries of 'ohohoh we're being persecuted by the media!' will be heard at the KH. Hahahaha dumb sh$*ts.

  • Las Malvinas son Argentinas
    Las Malvinas son Argentinas

    I’ll find a way to watch it, and it certainly is great to get exposure if the victims aren’t being overly dramatic and sensational about it.

    Speaking of which...

    My first experience with Lloyd was typical of the many that came after it. First there was a debate about the Malvinas issue which he felt he was the best suited to swat away what he perceived to be a lame shot on goal. I kept engaging him, which as you know he does not like. It was fine until he started blaming me for taking him away from his wife and ruining his marriage because he felt somehow compelled to refute every single point I had made.

    What is lost in the shuffle is that a huge part of Lloyd’s schtick is how he is shunned by his father and sister and how his father has never visited his granddaughter. If you go back in his posts in this forum you’ll find a thread where he announces that he had begun writing a book - about 4 years before the eventual release in 2017. In the post he detailed how “unique” of a selling point his book would have in attracting a publisher. He was going to write under his own name and come out with the release of the book as an apostate. He opined that it would bring on a judicial committee for writing the book and disfellowshipping - the precise thing he wanted. He then went on that further editions would be necessary to fill the reader in on his expulsion. In essence, his disfellowshipping was to be used as a publicity stunt to get himself published and produce subsequent editions. Needless to say no publisher was interested and that idea was dropped when he came out with his apostasy voluntarily and self-published by means of crowdfunding. He even refused the lady who set up his first book signing in London a sneak peak at the book without first paying for it and openly wondered if he was going to run out of pens at the signing.

    If the disfellowshipping was to be part of a book deal, you had to wonder what exactly Lloyd was giving up by doing so?

    Fortunately in the book he provided more details in his relationship with his surviving family members. He was close to his late mum and felt she was more on his level intellectually. His father was referred to as some kind of dunce who couldn’t hold down a regular job. His sister was revealed to have emotional problems. Cited as evidence of this, he relates how she broke down completely when informed by Lloyd that their mum was terminal. It was a cheap shot as anyone who has lost a parent can attest to.

    It’s clear that he had little regard for what was left of his family. But we are made to believe that shunning has affected him and his family in the worst way. He just HAD to drag his daughter for a photo op at his father’s door - a door he very well knew would not be opened. He’s more about self-promotion than anything. I can only hope that Leah’s producers can edit his worst tendencies out and stick to a genuine telling of the facts.

  • smiddy3

    I am hoping that her show highlights the many deaths that have been caused by the JW ban on blood transfusions since the 1940`s and the many children that have been influenced ,and coerced by parents ,relatives ,Elders ,and the hospital liaison Committee to refuse a blood transfusion in the hope of pleasing God and entering into a paradise earth.

    A hope that is only taught by a few Governing Body men in America and made mandatory to all of Jehovah`s Witnesses around the world with the threat of disfellowshipping and shunning if they do not comply and has no credibility by any other christian ,Jewish or Muslim religion all of which base their beliefs in part or whole on what is recognized as the Bible.

    The blood ban in the Bible was a dietry law not to eat blood and nothing more.

    Jehovah`s witnesses don`t even follow their own beliefs that blood should not be used for any purpose but that it should be poured out on the ground.

    Yet they approve of blood fractions that is derived from donated blood from other people that is stored in a laboratory ,processed and separated into the various fractions.

    And it is verboten to even donate their own blood for this purpose ,but their quite happy to use blood fractions that other people have donated .

  • TerryWalstrom

    Look at it this way: there has always been rape--but--look how the #MeToo movement has taken over the world for curiosity and outrage.

    Scientology and Jehovah's Witnesses are two different predatory beasts. L.Ron Hubbard and J.F. Rutherford are pretty well matched for the Coo-coo nest award. To OUTSIDERS, this is fascinating.
    Two different car wrecks on the side of the same rode.
    There is plenty of blood and gore for all eyes watching.

    Lloyd and Mike Rinder are two sides of the same coin, too.
    Lloyd is an explicator extraordinaire. Like Mike Rinder, he has a dispassionate exterior presentation. He's disarming and methodical.
    Stories of shunning and child abuse and deaths of babies from denied medical treatment are more than enough to glue an audience to their TV set. The particulars of belief--it is true--is not better or worse than any ridiculous belief set--but don't underestimate the novelty aspect.
    (The other guy's beliefs are always scandalous).

    I think many of us former Dubs are simply numb to the outrageous history and practices of our former cult religion. We are so accustomed to the daily stories of internal misery and disaffection we simply nod casually and whisper, "Of course."
    Yes, we are boiled frogs if we've been around for years and years on these discussions and autobiographies of TTATT.

    Even the most egregious aspects of lock-step behavior can normalize and that background drone of woe goes away after many years.

  • _Morpheus

    Hearing that there is going to be a panel makes a world of differance. Having llyod as the sole represenative is a disaster. Having him in a crowd helps mitigate the damage, although in typical llyod fashion he is front and center 😂😂. In an event, im willing to invest a few minutes watching it knowing there will be other voices.

  • Simon
    The blood ban has caused many many deaths. We used to say a thousand a year because it mirrored Jonestown

    But that is an incredibly rough extrapolation and I've yet to see any evidence to back-up the assumptions which are broad.

    We should put as much effort into arriving at a defendable figure as we do promoting an invented one.

    Here are the facts:
    How many JW’S die each year for want of a Blood Transfusion?According to the Red Cross and various National Blood Banks 4.5 million American lives are saved each year by blood transfusions. ...
    Since JW’S make up .8% of the US population. .8% of those 4.5 million who needed a transfusion is 3600. So roughly speaking 3600 JWs plus or minus will face this situation each year in the US alone.

    The problem I have with this kind of reasoning is that you are basing the initial number off the one given by an organization that has a vested interest in making the "number of lives saved" figure as high as it can possibly be (I'm not saying it's wrong, just that it's not independent). You are then saying that the JW group is identical to the rest of the population (aren't we trying to claim they are very very different?).

    I struggle to believe that 3,600 JWs are dying in the US each year because of refusing blood which seems to be the claim but is it, really? You are working out lives saved by blood and then saying that many will face the situation but does that mean that all of them will die? No, so one has to question just how accurate the "lives saved" number is. Maybe all 3,600 just have different treatment that didn't involve blood and all survive? Maybe it's somewhere between 0 and 3,600 ... and that's the point - your extrapolation is far too simplistic and far too easy to pull apart and pushing a number that isn't robust is dangerous.

    When I was a JW, without all the medical advances of the last 20 years, and they were keen to promote such deaths as being something to applaud I never heard of anywhere near that number or any / many cases in surrounding halls or circuits.

    There seems to be a gap somewhere and I believe that lifestyle choices inherent in people being JWs will dramatically reduce the number of incidents of people needing blood and something like this will explain the difference. Again, the website is keen to promote "nice" uses of blood - all genuine victims, children and such and I didn't see any mention of gun-crime uses - because they are wanting to promote people to donate, which is why I don't think their numbers are the best to begin with.

  • OrphanCrow
    Simon: I struggle to believe that 3,600 JWs are dying in the US each year because of refusing blood which seems to be the claim but is it, really?

    No, that is not the claim.

    The claim is this: roughly speaking 3600 JWs plus or minus will face this situation each year in the US alone

    Facing the situation does not mean dying from the situation. It means just that: Facing the situation that they need blood. The claim does not say: dying from lack of blood

    Extrapolating how many will actually die from that blood refusal is based on medical studies that estimate the risk that JWs face that exceeds the deaths in the general population who also face the same situation. The death estimates take into account the added risk of either refusing blood or using blood alternatives that have a higher mortality rate than a simple blood transfusion does.

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