C.O. Reports: JWs/WTS "Reach Critical Mass...

by BitterTruth 107 Replies latest jw friends

  • Pathofthorns

    Thanks for those comments BT.

    I understand what you are saying and don't dispute what you say. I am just having difficulty with the 30% thing as I cannot possibly figure how such could be determined accurately except by means of some sort of annonymous pole by Brooklyn.

    I realize that the COs are the eyes and ears, and I realize their input is considered valuable. I also agree with you that what friends from Bethel etc reveal in confidence in one on one discussion is quite different than what is presented in public. Like I said, its just the 30% thing that I'm having a hard time seeing.

    I do hope you are right, as it will likely make things easier for us in this boat the sooner these things materialize. I guess I just don't want to get my hopes up. There are simply too many rumours and I don't want to jump on any bandwagons.


    Edited by - Pathofthorns on 17 July 2000 11:50:10

  • TheBitterTruth

    Hi "Pathofthorns":

    "30 percent" ... 30% is putting it "mildly," believe me...among THINKING Jehovah's Witnesses...

    ...they can arrive at a figure because they know just how many full-time overseers are "active"...(I remember it was announced some time ago that there was about 40 District overseers and 350-400 Circuit overseers active, (not counting substitutes) in this country alone...that was a few years ago.)

    So, those figures are known, especially Bethel personnel...they know the figures, they know the percentages...and they say, confidential, the number runs about 1/3...that's 1/3 that are discontent with present day things at "Watchtower land."

    Actually, the number should be 99-100 percent, wouldn't you say?

    Thank God, there is at least 1/3 of them that know something is very, very wrong,with the organization and the Governing Body leadership...that's 1/3 of the travelling brothers and other higher ups. Brothers "in-the-know."

    For think, my, my...if the actual "leaders" of this organization didn't know what was really going on...the organization would truly be in big trouble...but somebody does know, and is aware of the nonsensical actions of the Governing Body, thats recent (as well as past) actions.

    It is interesting to note that when Ray Franz left Bethel, and was subsequently put out of the organization on false charges of "apostasy," ...he said he was written to, or received phone calls from brothers all around the world, from EVERY LEVEL of organizational responsibility...Pioneers, Special Pioneers, Missionaries, Ministerial Servants, Elders, Circuit overseers, District Overseers, Branch Overseers, Zone Overseers, and so on. That's every level... and that was over 20 years ago!

    They were concerned...they wanted to hear "his side of the story,"...and this was certainly NOT approved by the Governing Body...but these brothers did not care, couldn't care less about what the Governing Body thought...they insisted on talking to Ray personnally...many of them have read his literature too. They are not as "slavish" to the WTS as average "dopey" JW thinks.

    So you are not dealing with average "joe blow" dopey witness here at all...these men and women can really, really think for themselves.

    And these same people, are still with the organization. Of course, they remember the 1980 Fiasco at Bethel, they remember the "experience" of Raymond V. Franz, Sanchez, E. Dunlap, yes...they haven't forgotten...

    and guess what...Jehovah hasn't either...

    Take Care,


  • Pathofthorns

    I hope you are right.

    2 questions:

    How long till everything surfaces into the open?

    Who is really running the show?


  • TheBitterTruth

    Hi Path:

    I have no way of knowing when they will make their move and also who they have selected to fill what position and all of the particulars...that's top secret.

    And this only if they get to implement their program...only if that happens...


    Yes, they will in all probability ask for the resignation of all G.B. members to start off with...to "clean the slate."

    That's the real first move toward healing the organization...remove everyone one of those brothers...

    Then, the "healing" process can begin...

    When?...a good time to make their "move" would be at any "annual meeting" held in October of each year. Any one they choose...Maybe this year...maybe next year...who knows

    It seems at that meeting, Everybody who's anybody is there at that "particular" meeting. Its "THE" meeting that determines who get to be in what position, from a Corporation standpoint. All G.B. members are always present for that meeting...all 400 or so proxy members, who represent the 3 Corporations, Penn, NY and IBS...all owned by the WTS. The Penn. Corporation is the real owner of all the assets, worlwide.

    Jehovah's Witnesss in general cannot attend the "business" meeting ... special invitees only.

    My guess is that the "takeover" could be accomplished by two (2) means

    (a) a "Corporation" takeover, a "legal" fight, with lots of "lawyers" present, or an attempt to sway the 400 or so "proxy holders" who vote into office to gain control of the vast financial assets of the WTS...ground work would have to be laid firmly for such a move...beforehand.

    (b) In view of the recent "changes" in policies, officially, ask the G.B. to Resign or else...the threat is made they do this or the 1/3 take the message DIRECT TO THE FRIENDS and let them decide...the damage caused by this, could be incalculable...there may not exist an organization, after that more drastic move...this could be the "more effective" move.

    The threat of hundreds and hundreds of highly respected brothers, leaders with the organization, going directly to the brothers and "telling it like it is..." Taking into consideration, the statue of these brothers, and the high "esteem" they are held by general rank and file brothers, this could be a devastating blow to the organization...will no doubt ATTRACT MEDIA ATTENTION, and probably bring about the overall "demise" of the organization itself...a serious break in the brotherhood on a worldwide scale, is totally unprecendented, totally unexplainable...for God's People to be engaged in total "civil war." A Break of this magnitude would be considered "sensation" to all concerned and wreak any who was thinking about starting a Bible Study with JWs...it would take many, many years for the organization to recover from this...many years.

    This is a powerful threat...a sobering thought...

    It would be interesting to see, how the G.B. would react to such a "threat."

    We know for a fact, they "deathly" afraid of "apostates," especially if they are UNITED.

    Then, too, it could be a combination of both these "moves," a combination...

    To be sure, with so much money at stake, which very easily could be in the billions $$$...it will not be an easy fight for them...that is, the 1/3 dissenters.

    I'm told major changes are still underway for the organization...these may be attempts by the Governing Body to comply immediately with the wishes of the "reformers," who may be threatening to "spill the beans" on the G.B., if nothing is not done real soon.

    Some more changes are on the way...The G.B. may make "some" concessions, may authorize to make "some" changes in the publications, toward reform...but I do not think they will "resign" their posts...at least, not without a fight.

    So, this "fight," should be a dandy one...with I think, unfortunately, the G.B. coming out on top...at least for the time being...but that's only temporary too...because JAH will then, have something to say about this mess...too...and JEHOVAH always wins His Conflicts and battles...always...



  • SolidSender

    Sure Frenchy – ever heard that song “ A Spoonful of Sugar ( Helps the Medicine Go Down )”?

    PS: I’ll catch up with you on our other thread today-SolidSender

  • SolidSender

    BT - hi.

    OK say this reform does eventuate can you paint us a picture of what to expect from the "healed" organisation?-SolidSender

  • TheBitterTruth

    Hi Path:

    Check out this post yesterday from H2O on a possible "coup" against the G.B. from some "heavy-hitters" at Bethel...


    Posted by DM [DM] on July 17, 2000 at 13:06:30 {tW/cjj/RIIL92cnEJXxIFq3D.pWoJ2}:

    In Reply to: 1914 change posted by guest on July 17, 2000 at 03:15:17:

    Too early yet. They have to change the 1914 doctrine because it'll soon start sounding TOO long ago, like 1799 did. But it seems too sudden yet, the change will come VERY gradually and take years, if not decades. I think the GB know that they are at death's door, so they are enjoying their last few years of peace. The burden of reform will come onto the next generation of JW leaders in 10-15 years time. Boy, will that be an exciting time for all of us! "

    Now here's the key portion the reader comments on...he continues...

    ...On the other hand, on page 31 of the new Isiah book, what I read there gave me a momentary shudder. It sounded just like the boys in the writing dept were suggesting a coup!
    Watch your backs GB, you may have been judged by those who currently serve you to be asweak as watered beer, fit only to be poured down the drain. JEHOVAH WILL REFINE HIS PEOPLE BY PURGING THE LEADERS!

    ------end of post from H2O-------------

    Could you ever imagine there could be going on, "right underneath our noses..." Hidden warnings and messages sent by way of printed publications -- "messages", printed "between the lines" sort of speak, in the recent printed publications...real animosity held DEEP within these brothers at Bethel...expressed in this manner??? Could this be...?

    A spiritual "cold war" going on of sorts between the G.B. and these very discontent, "heavies" at Bethel...writing dept and so on...? If someone didn't point it out to you...you'd never see it...but maybe, just maybe...its there....right there for us to see...

    Well, if and when the big "fight" occurs, we will just have to wait and see. But if a big fight breaks out between all of the "big boys", the "heavy-hitters"...you'll know why...



    Jehovah's Witnesses, God's Name People -- Destined to "Fall" and Be "Restored" According to Bible Prophecy -- Isaiah 30:26; Jeremiah 23:19, 20

    Edited by - TheBitterTruth on 18 July 2000 6:7:5

    Edited by - TheBitterTruth on 18 July 2000 6:18:23

  • Pathofthorns

    Suppose you are right and this all goes down like you say it could, why would the members still want to stick around? It would seem to me that such turmoil would be sufficient evidence for many that they are free.

    I think too, despite having been exposed, you might be surprised that those who remain will be more likely to support the Governing Body than any new controlling body.

    Any new controlling body will find that they too will fall into the same pitfalls as the previous GB. And winning the hearts of the blind and loyal sheep will be the hardest task of all.


  • TheBitterTruth

    Hi SolidSender:

    OK say this reform does eventuate can you paint us a picture of what to expect from the "healed" organisation?-SolidSender

    Hmmmmmmm. You have asked a deep question.

    Since we talking about the future...what is going to occur, I will go back to my "original" source...The Bible itself...prophecy. -- John 16:13

    To Jehovah God, the "organization" is not "healable." It far beyond any thing that man can do to "heal" it.

    The "reformers" have good intentions...and they distinguish themselves with God, for at least, trying to "right the wrongs" committed by the Governing Body...thoroughly wicked men, incorrigably wicked, according to the Bible.

    These "men" have distinguished themselves...these "reformers," ... Jehovah will reward them too, in the end...

    But Why? Why can't the JW "organization" be "healed," be "saved" from God's perspective...even if the "reformers" are successive in taking over...this "coup," we speak of?

    It's kind of like this... if some "cooky" elders used the kingdom hall is some out of touch place, as a Brothel, Liquor house and gambling casino "on the side," for some Late Saturday Night "action," and the brothers in the surrounding areas, eveutually found out about it.

    What would they do?

    The congregation would probably be dispersed and the building would be viewed, then, as worthless...probably sold with a new Kingdom hall eventually built and "rededicated" to God, after a new body of elders could be imported to this place. But, more than likely dispersal would occur first...Probably a wise move.

    Dispersal is necessary again, for God's people...

    A rededication is also in order, too.

    Yes, what men would do on a small scale, God will do on a Grand Scale to correct this "situation," created by the Governing Body...its the same way with JAH.

    Twice we know Jehovah had His own "temple" arrangement completely destroyed, because of wickedness practiced by the "spiritual leaders"...first by Nebuchadnezzar and later by General Titus, and all because of the massive "wrongdoing" practiced of His people and leaders...

    The people were dispersed...

    This is God's way...

    Remember, Jesus said, "nothing that was hidden," a bad thing that was practiced...would remain so...it would eventually be "revealed" at the appropriate time. We have reached that time.

    We are at this point now...

    The great wrongdoing of the WTS, exposed everywhere we look, is indeed, being "revealed" by Jehovah God Himself...as retribution upon the WTS' practice of lying, deception, false prophecy, and spiritual "murder," and martydom brought upon any who opposed their wicked antics in the past...then, this is really God's Doing...Divine Retribution upon the wicked WTS!

    And, finally, after this great exposure, Jehovah God wants the organization, and the WTS as a whole, and the entire organization that bears His Great and Holy Name...DESTROYED completely....because of this.

    JAH will remove all reproach that has been heaped upon His Great Name by JWs in general, and the WTS...this He will do. -- Ezekiel 36:22-28

    But first, He wants His people to know WHY...WHY he is doing this...Why...

    So, the WTS themselves, its Governing Body, then must be EXPOSED!

    This is God's Will, and I personally concurr.

    KEY POINT: All of Jehovah's Witnesses, every one that persists and STAYS WITH THE ORGANIZATION, despite KNOWING of the wrongdoing of the WTS, their false doctrines, and practices, and DOES NOT LEAVE...will indeed experience God's direct Wrath upon themselves...its just that simple...

    This will be accomplished in a simple and straightforward manner...

    If they stay with the now proven "wicked" organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, right up to the end, despite all of the wicked things being proven AGAINST THE ORGANIZATION...then they will see the start of the "GREAT WAR" that is shortly ahead of us, spoken of at Daniel 10:1 and Rev. 6:4, and just after that same devastating "war,"... but this "war" WILL NOT lead to "Armageddon" and destruction upon the world in general...no...no...no...

    JWs, will finally come to "understand" what it means when the Scripture and Daniel promises that the "king of the north," after winning the battle over the "king of the South," will indeed:

    "...will enter into the land of decoration [palestine] and many will be STUMBLED..." -- Daniel 11:40

    The "many will be stumbled" part...is the key...

    They will find out exactly what that means...God's Wrath upon them!

    However, brothers such as yourselves...yes brothers...Those JWs who have the insights and smarts, and the good heart condition to LEAVE that filthy place, the WTS, will BE INSTANTLY REWARDED BY JEHOVAH GOD, to find out that He has already made special provisions for them, OUTSIDE THE ORGANIZATION, which bears HIS NAME. That's OUTSIDE of the organization...special provision...spiritual food...the "truth" about His Word, and why He has allowed this "situation" to develop in the first place.

    They will be "regroup," spiritually "restored" and educated and finaly thus allowed to swell to the number of over 200 million strong...to demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt, that these people, the ones who LEFT THE ORGANIZATION, really have God's blessing upon them, because they have fully RENOUNCED the WICKED WTS, completely, "searched for Him," and that "God has indeed found them," and has "spread his tent over them," completely and "resides among them," as "God" forevermore. -- Rev. 21:3

    Seems, to be too good to be true...? Well, You brothers, on this forum, are the first among all of JWs, to be exposed to these "unique provisions" especially prepared by God, Jehovah. He has favored you brothers here, on this forum, BY GIVING YOU ACCESS to such information.

    That's access...many do not have this...at present.

    I hope this helps...


    Jehovah's Witnesses, God's Name People -- Destined to "Fall" and Be "Restored" According to Bible Prophecy -- Isaiah 30:26; Jeremiah 23:19, 20

    Edited by - TheBitterTruth on 18 July 2000 7:31:5

    Edited by - TheBitterTruth on 18 July 2000 7:35:28

  • TheBitterTruth

    Hi Path:

    Suppose you are right and this all goes down like you say it could, why would the members still want to stick around? It would seem to me that such turmoil would be sufficient evidence for many that they are free.

    I think too, despite having been exposed, you might be surprised that those who remain will be more likely to support the Governing Body than any new controlling body.

    Any new controlling body will find that they too will fall into the same pitfalls as the previous GB. And winning the hearts of the blind and loyal sheep will be the hardest task of all...Path

    Jehovah God and Jesus say that you are right...and I concurr too....but that takes serious insight to see that FAR DOWN THE ROAD...the "reformers" are just doing what they think is the "proper" thing to do...but I do agree with you and the Bible does too.

    If you check out my post to "SolidSender", you will see that this is my position on the matter.


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