C.O. Reports: JWs/WTS "Reach Critical Mass...

by BitterTruth 107 Replies latest jw friends

  • Dubby


    While I agree that most JW's hold the Bible above the WTS, isn't it true that most JW's believe they can't find the truth in the Bible without the WTS? Isn't that what the Society teaches? Therin lies the irony.

    I believe that the Society has engaged in a massive "doublespeak" campaign. The "faithful slave" controls what JW's are allowed to believe to a great extent. There is not a lot of diversity in what JW's believe. Is this because they are a truly united Christian people, or are they led along by the WTS? I believe they have usurped the authority of God and Jesus. If this is the case, is the WTS a false prophet? I believe so.

    "Enjoy God's creation, ride a dirt bike!"

  • Seven
    ...I'm one of those that genuinely enjoys the association with the witnesses.

    Hey Frency, Me too. They just don't enjoy associating with me. This is probably due to their thinking that I'm loving the world too much by my choice of
    careers. My family thinks along this line too. I don't feel I'm showing a lack of love for God but rather a good witness by being successful. I don't
    understand this at all, I'm about as humble as they come. It's a lose-lose situation.

  • Frenchy

    Seven: Just so you know, I enjoy associating with you very much.

    Dubby: I agree with what you said. No JW would ever say that he holds the WTS above the Bible but he will only accept as 'Biblical' what the WTS says! In other words, he accepts their interpretation of what the Bible says. There are many examples of this and I think that most of us are aware of a great many of them. In the end, it is THEIR thought that prevails regardless of what the Scripture actually says. Doubletalk.

    -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

  • Pathofthorns


    The day the Society states that its teachings hold precedent over the Bible will be the day that 99% of Jehovah’s Witnesses leave off association with the Society. I fully realize that that latter statement can be countered, but I don’t think successfully so; at least I’ve never seen it.

    We all know that the Society would never state such but consider that people like you have been writing the Society for a long time proving with sound reasoning and solid arguments that the stand on blood is not Bible-based (or lacks sufficient proof to make it doctrine), that the 607 BCE date lacks solid proof, that alternative civil service should have been permitted over 15 years earlier, etc. etc. ect.

    We have seen that within a relatively short period of time changes can happen to organizational policy. (ie. Jimmy Swaggart case/donation arrangement).

    The fact that concerned individuals have written respectfully using such sound scriptural argmentation for change and none has been forthcoming or it has taken so many years at the suffering of so many shows that they uphold their understanding over Bible truth.

    I won't go into the Walsh case, but what further evidence does one need to show that we kick out individuals who could have the true understanding, just to preserve unity until we are forced to make changes. And that is what is happening these days- forced changes, by Governments, "apostates", and thinking Witnesses.


  • RedhorseWoman


    I felt as you do for quite some time. After awhile, however, the preponderance of experience was negative. At that point I became inactive.

  • TheBitterTruth

    Hi SolidSender:

    ... what's the latest dope/spin doctoring on 1914 do you know?-SolidSender

    I'm a bit long-winded on this one, but here goes... :-)

    The "dope on 1914, the latest spin," .... Well, of course, its the real albatross hanging around the G.B.'s neck...but how to get rid of it, that's a different question...for without it...you can have no FDS that could have been appointed, that's if Jesus did not take kingdom power in 1914 and shortly thereafter appoint them to their present position of power and prestige...somewhere around 1919 or so.

    To tell you truth, the "bittertruth" of the matter -- (my opinion only) they probably should have left Fred Franz's LIES alone...he was the better LIAR among the bunch, in writing dept and on the G.B. on this subject...particular tampering with "our present understanding" or "present truth," concerning the "Great Tribulation" as discussed in Matthew 24th chapter.

    It seems, particularly when we discuss or consider this info, the "Great tribulation" and a proper understanding of it, as revealed in Matthew 24th chapter, real problems crop up. Fred taught it one way, But you know, they didn't stay with it...you know...

    Nope...that just didn't happen...they just had to go and start making changes...in 1993. Improving stuff...and you guessed it...a royal mess.

    Yes, their real problem started in 1993 when they started tampering with the "celestial phenomena" and DIVIDING UP the "Great Tribulation" into an "A" and a "B" part...that was really stupid. This confused everybody!

    I'm talking about Everybody...COs, DOS, missionaries...Bethelites...everybody...

    I wonder what idiot put that article together...makes no sense, at all...

    But, those in the know, knew why they did this...They did this as a feeble attempt to address Carl O. Jonnson 2nd book which revealed that the FDS does not get appointed until Jesus makes his real second "parousia," or second coming [erchomai] which occurs just before supposedly, Armageddon.

    That's when the madness began.

    With Fred Franz dead, there was no one among the bunch with any serious intellectual capacity. (and that's especially with Raymond Franz gone, and totally bannished from the G.B.) This only leaves you, guys, who are left on the G.B. (writing dept also included) possessing no serious scholarly nor spiritual depth among them, and admittedly with some as, confirmed, blooming idiots.

    Their present lunacy, has been amply demonstrated for 10 million readers to see, with the recent writings of the October 15th, and November 1, 1995 articles covering the "dividing of the sheep and goats," and identifying the "generation" that "lives to see the end," as Jesus promised based upon Matthew 24th chapter.

    In the first one, it states that Jesus IS NOT "Judging" people today at all...so that people we preach to in our door-to-door ministry, currently and since the year of 1914, ARE NOT actually "separated" by the preaching work done by Jehovah's Witnesses at all.

    -- Now who do you think is gonna want to go out in field service after that "new light" has been expounded upon?

    Only an idiot...ohh I know...I see plenty of them everyday...still thinking they are in the "separating" work...going from door-to-door...but those in the know...yes, they were devastated with this release!

    Furthermore...no one in writing dept. gave any thought to those "publicity horses" of ours...the WTS printed "publicity horses...."

    Yes, what about those "publicity horses," spoken of in the "Finished Mystery" book, covering Revelation chapter 9....what about the colors of "Gehenna" supposed carried by the "riders" of those "publicity horses," some "200 million strong," the printed publications of JWs and the WTS...

    No "judging work" of Jesus since 1914...

    means guess what???

    It means...no colors of "Gehenna," [hyacinth blue, sulfur yellow, fiery red] the colors of the "judgmental" publications of ours, carrying the supposedly "judging messages" of Jesus himself toward those who turned a deaf ear to our preaching work...

    the separation of the "sheep and goats," work....yeah...that work...that we haven't been doing after all...according to the October 15, 1995 Watchtower...for the past 80 years or more...

    And the teaching:

    "this generation will not pass away until all things occur..."...

    Yes that "generation" is Not the one of 1914, the 80 years since the year of 1914, is NOT THAT "Generation" that Jesus spoke about...its another one...according to the Nov. 1st, 1995 Watchtower magazine...it is a future "generation," one...a better understanding of the Greek word, actually reveals this...

    ...yeah right...this is our "new light." :-(

    And Jehovah reveals this exactly 81 years after the date of 1914...reveals it in the year of 1995...exactly 81 years after 1914,

    ...that's one (a) year after Armageddon didn't get here like it was supposed to... in the year of 1994, some 80 years, the presummed length of a "generation" (Ps. 90:10) as the WTS had taught for many, many years before.

    The masthead now on the Awake! magazine, thus needed to be removed immediately! With no explanation at all...

    Still, the moronic, idiotic average rank and file, JWs, could not put this together...but those "in the know," could...and they did...

    The WTS was just a bunch of Low Down Liars...experts at doing so, with no heart or feeling at all for humanity in general, nor their so-called beloved brotherhood...

    A Fact!...

    So, now if you ask: How far in the future....?

    The WTS, doesn't know...that's all you are going to get from the Governing Body and its Writing Department at Bethel...

    Should have said that in the beginning... :-)

    Should have, could have, would have...Well...any way...

    Field service has been going down, at an alarming rate ever since...and no surprise to any one in the know...

    So...These two articles have over the past 5 years, single-handledly, (along with the 1993 releases mentioned above) simply split the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses in half...(liberal and conservative) right down the middle and has placed the entire brotherhood of JWs ON TRIAL before God.

    Jehovah God is by no means through with this situation at all...

    Yes, still, more changes are in store...the "woman is pregnant," "cries out in her agony," and must "give birth," to what is ahead...it must occur.

    If you may have already noticed, for the first time, the WTS decided to reveal to the general public, and to its sadly, pitible, ignoramus brotherhood the fact that the "2,520" theory did not get its start with CT Russell nor any of his contempories at all, noooooooo......but the "Proclaimers" book, for the first time, admits, it started with John Aquilla Brown.


    Of course, Carl O. Jonnson, had that mentioned in his FIRST book, but still they admitted still, nevertheless. (yeah right... :-) they were forced into it...that's more like it.)

    Also, in that publication, released early 1990's I believe, they also acknowledged that the 607 date had passed through the hands of several men, BEFORE CT Russell got the epoch making date. Why reveal this now? Why?

    Again, C.O. Jonnson revealed that fact too, in his first book...."The Gentile Times Reconsidered."

    What are they up to with this venture into new, hallowed ground of real "truth,"...?...

    Perhaps, they are building up to admitting to all of the brotherhood that the date of 607 for Jerusalem's destruction, IS NOT BIBLE-BASED, not of Divine origin, ... because of the its "unsavory" connections, backgrounds and origins.

    Still, though the 1914 teaching will persist...
    it doesn't go away yet...

    but one more hurdle will be down...then later, with the "generation" teaching gone, the 607 teaching gone, the sheep and goats dividing gone, the "celestial phenomena" teaching gone, and the break up of the "Great tribulation" into an "A" and "B" part, now reexplained...

    And.....after the shock of removing the date of 607 has passed...

    and all of Carl's Jonnson's and RV Franz, objections finally addressed...at least a half-hearted attempt at doing so,

    ...then they will tell all idiotic Jehovah's Witnesses, some 5-6 million strong, that the date of 1914 is nor correct,

    ...but that's in the future, a few more years yet to go for that...but it will be done...they have to remove the teaching, because it is an albatross to them, and they know it...it has too many unattractive features about it, too many liabilities to explaining it...its too hard to teach to newcomers, especially with 607 date being attached to understanding it...with the web and all, and with people nowadays, checking things out before they "bite."

    So Carl O. Jonnson, has forced things in many ways...RV Frannz too. Their "writings," and others, has made clear the Gospel accounts reveal the "son of man" apparently makes his "appointment of the FDS" AT HIS SECOND "PAROUSIA" or really his second coming...which the G.B. and JWs, and more and more people in the know, understand to be only at the end, just before Armageddon.

    (This though, IS NOT my understanding of this matter at all...just wanted to include that thought...serious flaws exist here too, when we adopt this perspective...but that's another post...)

    So, the date of 1914 has got to go...but not before the G.B. finds another way for them to get "appointed" by Jesus, at least, just recently...to being the FDS...not before then.

    Their dilemmna...How can we keep the G.B. in power, AFTER we "ditch the date" of 1914? That's the Governing Body's primary concern right now. Staying in power and keeping control...after they get rid of 1914. But it seems, they are making plans to do so, in the near future.

    The book is called..."THE SIGN OF THE LAST DAYS -- WHEN?" -- by C.O. Jonnson and Wolfgang Herbst. This book did some serious damage to the WTS theology of "parousia" supposedly meaning "presence" and not meaning "coming," and also the doctrine of the FDS, as currently taught by the WTS.


    Jehovah's Witnesses, God's Name People -- Destined to "Fall" and Be "Restored" According to Bible Prophecy -- Isaiah 30:26; Jeremiah 23:19, 20

    Edited by - TheBitterTruth on 16 July 2000 22:46:28

    Edited by - TheBitterTruth on 16 July 2000 23:11:7

  • waiting

    Hey BT,

    You have a unique writing style, well, in fact, two styles. Very different from each other.

    I remember my first husband. Had a nasty habit of drinking and/or pot. Used to get on the phone with me and go on and on and on and on.

    I never saw his actual moods in writing. Would have been interesting, however.


  • TheBitterTruth

    Hi Waiting:

    You have a unique writing style, well, in fact, two styles. Very different from each other...I remember my first husband. Had a nasty habit of drinking and/or pot. Used to get on the phone with me and go on and on and on and on...I never saw his actual moods in writing. Would have been interesting, however...waiting

    LOLROFL :-)

    Yeap...that's it...I've been exposed...I'm on dope...weed & coke...that's coca-cola...though.



  • SolidSender

    BitterTruth - an outstanding post. Thank you for taking the time & trouble to explain and write to me I really appreciate it. Looking forward to more of the same.-SolidSender

  • TheBitterTruth

    Hi Dubby:

    While I agree that most JW's hold the Bible above the WTS, isn't it true that most JW's believe they can't find the truth in the Bible without the WTS? Isn't that what the Society teaches? Therin lies the irony.

    Yes, indeed!

    To be sure, the WTS does possess "some" truths, but still BASIC, BASIC, FUNDAMENTAL "truths," that have been around for over 1,000 years or more.

    The "Albigensians" of the 12 century, practically taught the same things as modern-day JWs, but few "brothers" know this...

    They attribute these "truths" to the WTS only...but mankind has possessed them for many, many years BEFORE The WTs.

    So, if the brothers actually knew, were more informed, then they perhaps, wouldn't be so "loyal", shall we say, to the WTS.

    A few of the "truths" that were taught by this group that predated CT Russell by several hundred years were:

    1. disbelieved the trinity
    2. were against giving veneration to images
    3. did not believe in hellfire nor purgatory
    4. were taught to love their enemies, keep the peace at all cost
    5. taught that the Catholic Church was the "Whore of Babylon."
    6. taught the Clergy was the Synagogue of Satan.
    7. disdained "holy water" and "confession."
    8. disdained the "cross."
    9. called the catholic priest "den of thieves, traitors, liars, and hypocrites."
    10. God and goodness would triumph over evil in the end.

    See "The Story of Civilization" Volume 4, "The Age of Faith (pg. 771, 772) -- Will Durant


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