PIMO elder

by Reservations 51 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Vidiot

  BluesBrother - "... it is harder to convince a believing JW of the falsehood of their way than it is to convince a worldly person to accept JW beliefs..."

  Well said.
• 

  Disillusioned JW

  Reservations, not all of the active believing JWs (at least some of those with some doubts) are happy about being active in the religion (and not all of them are close minded to dissenting views), even if they don't appear to be unhappy. I know because I was one of them. I thus believe it is important to somehow find a way to help such ones. I wish someone had helped me (prior to age 25) to see the truth about the JW religion and about the Bible not being the word of a god, for such would have freed me 10+ years earlier (from mental bondage and from servitude to the WT). I intend to make a much more detailed post about this later (I am in the process of writing a draft of it).
• 

  redvip2000

  She knows there are problems in the WT : pedophiles, money, manipulation .. but she always says "Jehovah will clean congregation at time" ...

  Right... and btw, he will also heal the sick and feed the hungry...in time. And all the crime and injustice? yeah...in time.

  For now, he has his hands full. He is too busy with....well..huhh nothing. He is doing absolutely nothing now, but it seems he will always do something in the future.

  And by the way, what's preventing other religions from saying the same thing? If JWs point out wrongs in other religions why can't they also say...."well God will fix it in time."
  
  
• 

  JWTom

  Hey Reservations, welcome and congratulations on waking up to TTATT. Waking people up is incredibly hard and also risky if you need to stay in the organization. I am in a very similar situation to you, however I concluded some time ago that remaining an elder causes far more damage than any benefit. I say this both related to myself - the personal damage related to stress, being two-faced, etc. - and also related to the fact that it is incredibly difficult to change anything or cause internal damage to the organization by essentially being a double agent or black ops Elder.

  The biggest thing you can do to possibly wake others up (in my opinion) is to greatly reduce your activity in the organization while you remain "active" in all appearances. This may be hard to do and take a great deal of courage. However, if every PIMO Elder and MS were to step down and simply STOP VOLUNTEERING for the endless free labor requests.....then the org would quickly have an enormous and possibly catastrophic problem. I have been posting more on the Reddit ExJW forum and you might find some of the threads below educational or insightful. Best wishes on all your efforts.

  https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/pbzexb/10_steps_waking_up_to_the_truth_about_the_truth/

  https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/ofk3g5/good_elders_are_a_myth_as_are_cos_bethelites_ms/

  https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/of5p4j/young_people_ask_how_can_i_escape_jw_land_a/

  https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/o6msdk/reduce_the_power_of_jw_org_a_checklist/
• 

  Disillusioned JW

  Reservations, here is my more complete reply.

  There are many good ideas and recommendations expressed in a number of the posts in this topic thread. In this post I make some comments about the following quotes from this thread.
  
  - "people wake up when they are ready to, often for personal reasons rather than anything doctrinal or organizational"
  
  - " I think the best you can do , is to observe , and maybe if you know some jw who was questioning about jw / WT problem to show where to find more information"
  
  - "They are happy believing what they do, otherwise they would have left a long time ago. You only have one life to live---why waste it on trying to help people who are not asking for your help. Let them live their own life and you live your own life. If they want to wake up they will."
  
  - "As far as getting other Jobos to wake up, it's a vain wish. I have to be realistic not
  idealistic here."
  
  - "I now conclude that it is harder to convince a believing JW of the falsehood of their way than it is to convince a worldly person to accept JW beliefs. ow I respect their right to believe it if they want , they can see all that I can see."
  
  - "... encourage people to do research, drop the names of a few non Witness sources, you can usually get away with it if it's historical stuff, try Edersheim."
  
  - "... trying to wake up those in the congregation is a futile thing to do. ...So please don`t waste your life trying to wake people up , they wont do so until they themselves are ready to be woken up."
  
  Some very active JWs (though they might be a very small percentage) though not appearing to be unhappy with the religion, are actually very unhappy with some aspects of religion. People (at least some them) in that category are active because the WT (and along with the Bible) convinced them it is their duty to Jehovah God to be active in the JW religion, even if they strongly dislike being active. But, they are active anyway because they believe it is the right thing to do, no matter how boring or unpleasant it is. I know that because I was one of them and I never expressed my unhappiness about such within the congregation, except for very few times with my mother (a JW). I kept my unhappiness about WT drudgery to myself. I was a regular pioneer for virtually three full years, and that was because of a sense of duty/obligation to Jehovah God, but it was a drudgery for me. I stopped pioneering because I couldn't take the drudgery any more and because I had obtained a Bachelor of Science college degree in Business Administration and I wanted to more fully pursue a career (instead of only working part-time).
  
  I wish someone (whether inside the religion or outside of it) had offered to present reliable information and ideas that would have helped me to see problems with the JW religion (including with the Bible itself). I wish such had been presented to me during my teens or 20s. By the time I was was 31 years old I started having serious doubts (and started getting onto the internet and using a web browser soon after web browsers began being distributed) and had dropped down to about 1 hour to 3 hours of field service per month while still a ministerial servant). At about age 35-37 years old I basically stopped attending Kingdom Hall meetings, but I wish I had become inactive (or nearly inactive) in my early 20s, or especially in my teens. Though in my younger years I didn't have many doubts (though I had some), I was still open minded enough that I would have listened to good evidence (such as statements in old WT literature that show the weird false teachings the WT taught back then) and good arguments (even if initially only I only listened with the intent to disprove them).
  
  However, I was afraid to read certain things (primarily books promoting atheism) for fear I might become an atheist and thus loose my prospect of salvation (if Jehovah God really does exist). I didn't want to become deceived into believing there is no god, if there really is a god. For periods of time I had an interest in reading science books about evolution (and I did read some science magazine articles about them), but in my teens I was afraid to read them due to fearing I might would be deceived.
  
  Though I loved the idea of living forever in a peaceful paradise Earth, I very strongly disliked going out in field service, spending so many hours attending JW meetings, and being expected to study so such for the meetings. When considering giving comments/answers to questions in WT publications, I didn't like being expected to only make statements repeating the ideas in those publications. I wanted the freedom to think critically about what the WT literature says and to express ideas I might have that disagree with what the literature says is the correct answer. As a result, answering questions in the JW meetings was too routine and thus boring and a drag.

  It would have been helpful if someone had personally encouraged me to read sources of quotes, with me being told that doing so would help me to get a clearer and deeper understanding of what the sources were saying. Furthermore, it would have been helpful if I had been told that doing such could potentially deepen my confidence in the Bible by seeing more fully what the historical and scientific sources said. You might be able to get away with saying such to select JWs, since the phrasing is stated in a reassuring way. At the same time, if people did check sources, in response to such encouragement, they would likely discover ideas that would cause them to see some problems with the WT's teaching.
  
• 

  Sea Breeze

  I would like to be able to wake people up in my congregation, how do you think best to do this?

  There is an ancient Navajo proverb that states, "you cannot wake a man pretending to be asleep". You'll never "wake" this kind of person up.
  
  The other kind wake up slowly. Maybe give those a little shake as you continue your journey elsewhere.
  
  
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  I would like to be able to wake people up in my congregation, how do you think best to do this? Any ideas?
  Reservations

  If they see you immediately resign as an elder and then stop going to meetings, they might realize they can do that too. And yes, I am being serious.
  
  Okay, you say you are in no position to leave. If you insist. But at least resign as an elder stating stress or whatever or not even offering a reason. (Just say, "I haven't sinned, but I need to work on my own spirituality.")
  During COVID 19 shut down might be a great time for that.
  
  Enjoy life as a less-involved observer. Others might be inspired.
• 

  BereanThinker7

  I haven't seen this answer really pop up thus far, but if you need to continue the pimo life for a while. I would boldly and bluntly put up front the Orgs more ridiculous doctrines that get buried in couched language and the barrages of "send more money and do more service."

  Things that are in line with official doctrine but stated more plainly to highlight the absurdity. . .

  "Remember brothers that we are still waiting for Christs third return."(1st century physical, 1914 invisible, 3rd time as Michael/ visible but spirit realm??)

  "We need to keep in mind since as members of the great crown, we do not have Christ as our mediator it is important we rely on the faithful slave to have a relationship with Jehovah."

  "Since about 2007 we now know the heavenly calling WAS NOT closed in 1935, we should not be suspicious of those who newly begin partaking."

  The Christian Greek scriptures were not written for us since we are not anointed of spirit.

  The great crowd aren't baptized into or a part of the body or Christ, we are baptized into an organization.

  We aren't the adopted as children of God since we aren't part of the body of Christ, remember Jehovah is not our Father yet, we just hope to be his friends.

  These types of things. . . .

  I also love when 4 CLEARLY different generations of family is gathered, and pointing out Great Grandma and Baby are actually 1 generation since their lives overlap. lol
• 

  EdenOne

  As an Elder, you have access. To information, to documents.

  Document yourself with everything you possibly can. Anything that helps prove discriminating policies, suspicious transactions, coverups policies, changes in beliefs, etc. Elders have access to information not available to common rank-and-file. Use that access. It may prove very valuable at a later stage.

  If possible, tactfully, incentive people in your congregation to be open-minded about information sources. Encourage people to be receptive to sources outside the Watchtower publications (don't ever mention WHY). But this opens a backdoor in people's minds. If they will use it or not, who knows, But it's there.

  Cast doubts about the Slave's ability to correctly interpret Scriptures, by pointing out many doctrine changes in the past - but always putting a positive spin on it, like, how they are humble and willing to admit that they were wrong, or how they are always trying to let the scriptures guide them. At some point, people will start asking themselves why an organization supposedly led by God himself has to change doctrine so many times. Couldn't God get it right the first time around?

  Then, when you can no longer help people anymore without attracting negative attention, resign from Elder. Don't give much explanations, say that you're burned out, depressed, whatever. They will try to squeeze you for more information (such as determining if you're a covert apostate, or if you have committed some sin secretly), but don't crack under pressure.

  When you feel ready, fade out. Or disassociate. For your sanity's sake. Living a life you don't believe in anymore is truly damaging for your mental health.
• 

  careful

  Res,

  What will you do if you are put into a position of defending org policies that you disagree with, whether it be something huge like DFing someone for reasons you no longer believe in, or something less drastic like defending some weird teaching?

  Also is your family situation at work in you feeling you're not able to step down?

  C