OKAY, GAME OVER! The number one reason the New Testament amounts to bunk

by Terry 98 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Anders Andersen
    Anders Andersen


    If a person wrote about himself performing miracles and just being great and on a first name basis with God..... yeah that would be suspicious (Moses anyone?).

    But what if Jesus at least wrote down the parables he (allegedly) told? All the important stuff we really need to know?

    And then 3 gospels written by eye witnesses would be a testimony to Jesus' authority and wisdom, increase his credibility, etc.

    That would really work...

    But now we have accounts written ages later, with some stories almost identical, but with enough contradiction for us to be forced to say 'these are accounts of separate events'...

  • Lostandfound
    But what proof Jesus or indeed anyone, wrote anything. Still a matter of faith whether you believe the authorship, and would be just the case of something claimed Jesus as author.
  • Island Man
    Island Man

    What are you talking about, Jesus did leave writings - they just weren't included in the heavily cherry-picked NT cannon. Do you seriously believe that there aren't any actual books purportedly written by Christ?

  • Finkelstein

    An interesting part to this returning Messiah is that they were other self proclaimed and believed Messiahs right around when Jesus supposedly lived before and after.

    Most people including JWS aren't aware that the NT was written decades after Jesus lived.

    I'm in belief of what the Hebrews thought of who Jesus was of that being that Jesus was just simply a prophet or Rabbi who taught about the returning Messiah and people eventually started to believe that he was himself.

    The story was certainly an emotionally engaging one, even to the ancients at the time and carried on from there..

    The Messiah returns to help in humanity's plight of pain and suffering but alas he's captured and killed by non-believers but leaves a message that he's going to return, so tell everyone about it..

  • Terry

    if Jesus wrote the book of Jesus people would complain of circular logic as if it was important only because it said so itself. Instead, there were three separate accounts.


    As Bart Ehrman once remarked, if we look at the 3 separate accounts of Jesus as witnesses testifying in a trial, and then compare (side by side) each and every detail, we don't find corroboration so much as we find irreconcilable variation. This is explicable as wear and tear on oral transmission, but it makes discovery of any "true" account painfully troubling and problematic unnecessarily.

    However, is the object to pass a bucket of water from generation to generation with a drop or two remaining? Should we flash a grin full of "gosh" and be happy we have anything at all? Or have we a right to demand the King of Heaven be a little bit more scrupulous in planning and carrying out of a task so easily accomplished by having the Son of God Himself do the writing?

  • Terry

    I agree entirely with your conclusions, but a trifle heavy on "would's"

    Like Hansel and Gretel, sometimes I too get lost in the "would's" :)

  • Terry
    ttdtt3 hours ago

    How about that Slavery is never condemned by jesus or any of his "disciples" nor are women talked about as being equal to men.

    I wonder if a few words from the son of god on those issues may have had any impact on the future suffering of billions of people?


    If Jesus had carefully written about GERMS and BACTERIA in such a (divine) way any person could understand it---think how many lives would have been saved through personal hygiene--how many children would not have died.

    After all Folks, Jesus built this old house and knew ever nail and timber, right? :)

    Slavery and women's rights and a host of practical social remedies never would enter the head of an itinerant Jew would-be Messiah UNLESS that man really came from heaven and possessed the secrets of the Universe.

    Nope. Not buying it. Sorry.

  • Terry
    island Manan hour ago
    What are you talking about, Jesus did leave writings - they just weren't included in the heavily cherry-picked NT cannon. Do you seriously believe that there aren't any actual books purportedly written by Christ?

    I see no reason to speculate upon the existence of further books when the ones we have are problematic already.
    I take the same position on books written by Jesus as I do on UFO Alien kidnapping. I need more than conjecture.
    Jesus was probably illiterate in all likelihood.

    Was Jesus Illiterate? Author Reza Aslan Thinks So

    "Author Reza Aslan believes that Jesus probably lacked the education to read a book like the Bible. Or the Torah, or any other written text for that matter, no matter the language.

    Aslan’s new book “Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth” is a revisionist take on the life of Jesus, arguing that his message of love was aimed more at a Jewish audience than a global one, that his attitude toward violence was “far more complex” than is generally thought, and that he was “very likely” illiterate.

    All of these claims appear to be directly contradicted by passages in the New Testament, but Aslan argues those lines are mistaken, misinterpreted, or deliberately misleading.

    Aslan, the author of the bestselling book “No god but God: The Origins, Evolution, and Future of Islam,” was born in Iran and grew up a Muslim before converting to Christianity and then returning to Islam. His background has prompted some critics to focus on Aslan’s personal history instead of directly grappling with the historical and theological points raised in his work.

    “Zealot” has landed with a splash, sparking debates on television, and rocketing up the book charts. Speakeasy talked with Aslan about some of the claims in his book. Here’s one excerpt from that longer interview.

    You’ve said that you were obsessed with Jesus. Why?

    Reza Aslan: I converted to evangelical Christianity. I began preaching the gospel to everyone I met. I was told [Jesus] was fully God and fully man. Well I became more interested in the man part. The illiterate, uneducated, poor peasant from the backwoods of Galilee, who in the name of the poor and the dispossessed and the outcast, took on the religious and political powers of his time and became far more real and far more accessible to me than the Christ of the evangelical church was. And so although I left Christianity, ironically, I became more interested and more devoted to finding out who Jesus really was.

    In the book you say that Jesus was “very likely” illiterate, and there’s “no reason to think” he could read or write. But a lot of Biblical scholars disagree. In Luke 4:16, we see Jesus reading. [“And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.”] So where do you get that from, saying Jesus is illiterate when in the Bible he is seen reading?

    Well, first of all, it may sound shocking to some people, but just because the gospels say something doesn’t mean it’s actually factual. The Gospel of Luke was written 60-70 years after Jesus had died, when Christianity was quintessentially a Roman religion and no longer a Jewish religion and the gospel writers were very interested in making Jesus someone who would appeal to a non-Jewish audience. But the facts of history speak for themselves. And I would say the vast majority of Biblical scholars would agree that the illiteracy rates in Jesus’s world were somewhere around 98 percent. 98 percent of Jesus’s fellow Jews could neither read nor write. The notion that a tekton, as Jesus is referred to in the Bible, a woodworker, which would make him the second-lowest rung on the social ladder in his time just above the slave and the indigent and the beggar, the notion that he would have had any sort of formal education, let alone the kind of education necessary to debate theological points with the scribes and the Pharisees, is difficult to reconcile with what we know of the history of the time.

    But examining the broad sweep of historical trends of a particular time doesn’t necessarily tell you anything about an individual person.

    It tells you everything about an individual.

    It doesn’t necessarily tell you anything about an individual person. More than 99.999 percent of human beings can’t run as fast as Usain Bolt. You might conclude, given those trends, we couldn’t have a Usain Bolt. And yet we do.

    What you are asking me is, is it conceivable that as a poor peasant from the backwoods of Galilee, who grew up a woodworker, a day laborer really, an artisan, in a village that was so small and so poor that it didn’t have any roads, or bathhouses or synagogues, and its name did not appear on any maps, could he have nevertheless been so well educated that he could not only read and write but debate the scriptures, is that possible? Sure. But is it likely? No. It’s the job of the historian to talk about what is most likely."

  • WTWizard

    Jesus is false--nothing more than the archetype of the perfect slave. Follow that thing too closely, and you will become the perfect slave. Microchipped and all. And even if that thing was true, it would be nothing more than scum. Nothing more than a homophobic, sexophobic, communist scumbag.

    The real Christ is nothing more than the SUN. Yup, the sun. Every positive thing written about that thing they call the christ applies to the sun. It is "born" every year on December 25. It spells salvation from darkness each year as it migrates northward, providing abundant energy for growing crops and feeding people (and animals). Then, it "grows old" and gets "impaled" on the Cross of the Zodiac on the Winter Solstice where it stays "dead" for three days. Then it is resurrected on December 25, reborn. No ransom for "sins" that amount to nothing more than being human. No communism. And no waiting beyond sunrise for the next Coming.

  • Terry

    The truly remarkable thing about human intellect is the practically infinite interpretations which can be extracted from a text.

    I always stop people who are talking about Christianity as though it were a solidarity movement. I say, "Hold on now--there are almost 40,000 denominations under differing banners, policies, theologies, doctrines, interpretations and degrees of conviction as to how "right" they are compared to all the other denominations "wrong."
    So, CHRISTIANITY is one of the most general concepts and not a unity of people or purposes.

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