How old's the human race?

by Freedom rocks 49 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • cofty
    I'm not sure you will get a definite answer on this. However, you can make your most educated conclusion yourself - scratchme

    Actually the science is very good on these questions. The universe is 13.7 billion years old. The total mass of the universe has even been calculated. Earth is 4.5 billion years old.

    Life first appeared around 3.8 billion years ago - although if you want consensus you can go for 3.4 billion years when the evidence is not disputed. The origin of Homo sapiens is less exact because there was no such thing as the first human (see video above) so there that date is open to debate depending on how we categorize ancient hominids.

  • Half banana
    Half banana

    How old is mankind? The question has to be understood in the context of evolution. This is because humanity evolved from earlier types of human-like ancestor species called hominins and we probably know more about these peoples generally than we do of the very earliest Homo sapiens. The reason being that fossil skeletal evidence is very rare to start with, only by unusual chance conditions will a skeleton ever be preserved and fossilise, and to find the earliest populations of Homo sapiens in a fossilized state will be extremely unlikely but who can foretell what might be found in the future?

    However rare they are to find in the field, there is nevertheless a vast collection of fossil human remains (JW org insists there are very few!) and also there is abundant evidence for their ancient presence by stone tools preserved in caves and settlement sites all over Africa.

    One of the best methods of preservation of human bones has been to find individuals who had the misfortune to suffocate and die in a rain of volcanic ash during an eruption. This chance happening has taken place numerous times in the Great Rift Valley in East Africa which is known as the cradle of mankind. Here, at the pace of a lame snail, the crust of planet Earth has been unzipping itself for aeons creating these murderous volcanic events and then revealing its actions millennia later as the giant cracks open up. In doing so, this tectonic plate activity yields a number of fortuitous gifts to palaeontology in Kenya and Tanzania.

    The first is that the ash from volcanic eruptions at a certain distance beyond the pyroclastic flow can preserve in stone a snapshot as it were of everything which was present on the landscape; footprints, animal tracks, men and beasts. The animal assemblage found in these deposits is important for dating hominins. For example the evolution of members of the pig family (suids) is well documented in the Great Rift Valley and the dates for each species is known as are many other evolutionary lineages of African fauna. A system of relative dating exists, known from the layers of volcanic sediments with earlier animal and human species at the lower layers superimposed by later species progressively revealed in the ascending strata formed mainly from volcanic events. Not only can the stratum containing the hominin and animals be ordered from relative dating (evolutionary sequences) but the matrix material can be radiometrically dated (see Cofty’s excellent recommended reading on the subject by Dr R Wiens).

    On top of that there is another dating method to corroborate the radiometric and that is palaeomagnetism which works very well in airborne volcanic deposits. This is based on the fact that Earth over geological time, for no known reason, reverses its magnetic polarity, the north magnetic pole becomes the south. There are minor reversals within the major reversals which can pinpoint events in time to the dating expert and palaeontologist. It works by the polarity of molecules of sedimentary material containing traces of iron aligning to the prevailing polarity on deposition. By cross referencing all of these dating disciplines against the backdrop of known prehistoric climate epochs; dates emerge.

    The small brained short bipedal hominin called Handy Man (thinks: Fats Domino) alias Homo habilis is considered the first of the genus Homo whose debut was made about 2.5 million years ago and died out around 1.4 million years back. There have been many Homo species following Handy man including the important forerunner of our species Homo erectus who arrived around 1.9 million years ago.

    As scientific evidence emerges there has been a continuous pushing back the date for the earliest Homo sapiens and this year 2018, the evidence looks now that our species has been around nearly 300,000 years. Twenty years ago the fossil evidence was only for 150,000 years, twelve years ago it was 195,000 so the field of scientific endeavour is active in this territory.

    Or did God make man in 4004 BC as Archbishop Ussher decided after calculating events in the Bible?

  • hooberus

    "Many creationists believe that the bulk of scientific evidence for a recent creation comes from the fields of geology, physics, and astronomy and that biology and genetics have little to contribute. However, data that confirm a young creation are rapidly emerging from genetic studies performed by both creationist and secular scientists"

    The book "Genetic Entropy" by Dr. Sanford (4th Edition) is an important read on this subject.

  • shepherdless

    Hooberus, I suggest that you read some real scientific literature, not that creationist pseudo-science.

  • jwfacts

    Australian aboriginals are worth researching. Several lines of science all arrive at similar dates for them arriving 50,000 years ago. They have a unique look and culture due to such a look period of isolation.

  • cofty

    Hooby has copy-pasted from a creationist website that reports on other creationists who have butchered a bit of excellent genetic research that shows the human population has exploded only in the past few millennia. Exactly the point we had to explain to Venus earlier.

    It's painful to witness this sort of ignorance and wilful deception.

  • Half banana
    Half banana

    “Genetic entropy” is twaddle Hooberus.

    It is designed to sound good to those who wouldn’t understand. Entropy is a specific term from physics which is merely applied metaphorically to decay. Genes do not suffer from entropy!

    In the process of evolution if any organism has a genome which can no longer cope with its environment, it simply doesn’t breed and dies off, it’s as simple as that.

  • Finkelstein
    Freedom rocks 2 days ago

    I remember a talk years ago where the speaker said human dna shows that we all descend from 2 people, 1 man and 1 woman. Wonder where he got that info from.

    If that talk is from a JWS, dont take it with a ounce of informative intelligence, JWS are not educated in biology.

    Fact is there were primitive civilizations that existed thousands of years before the ancient Hebrew civilization and when the writings of the bible occurred..

  • venus

    Hi shepherdless,

    What you say [There has been a massive population explosion in the last couple of centuries due to modern health and sanitation, modern medicine, the Haber process, etc. Before that, population levels were relatively stable, even over millenia] is not correct.

    It is just the other way around. In the ancient patriarchal society (like that of Jacob of OT) there had been many wives, concubines and many children in one family. Scriptures and stories are reflection of the society in which it is written. This is true of all epics and scriptures of the pagans. History books also support this: "The Ancient Egyptian Pharaoh Ramesses II had a large number of children: between 48 and 50 sons, and 40 to 53 daughters–whom he had depicted on several monuments." Some kings had even over 100 wives. (

  • Freedom rocks
    Freedom rocks

    I don't know how people can cope with having more than 1 wife or husband, 1 is enough to keep happy and keep up with.

    Look at how many wives and concubines Solomon had, there must have been a lot of children born from those unions.

    Wasn't the life expectancy a lot lower back in those days compared to now.

    The total population for any time period can only be a guess at best. Even now new hidden tribes are discovered every so often plus with the ever changing birth and death rate there are no reliable statistics for total worldwide population.

    So really With all the fields of science and the differing theories out there and all this available research/ information, the wts are no more enlightened or led by holy spirit than my little finger is, because they pick and choose what suits their needs or wants and ignore facts that have been proven by science but contradicts the bible or what they want it to teach.

    No wonder they have such a harsh punishment if you think differently to them and you're deemed an apostate coz they don't have a leg to stand on against "the real truth" but don't want to lose their control over people or lose their income.

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