by Slidin Fast 540 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
‘scholar’:
The problem that you have is proving that Daniel was of late composition.
😂 My analysis of Daniel is consistent with the best scholarship. A deluded Watch Tower Society shill disagreeing with me in the Internet is hardly a ‘problem’ for me.
Jeffro.
Only if you pretend that the obvious references to the Seleucid period are magical 🤦♂️
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No magic is required as the Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy on page 228 clearly sets out the only significant role of the Seleucid Kingdom described in Dan.11:5-19.
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I hope you don’t think that’s a coincidence 😂 Adventist groups have Adventist beliefs. Wow. Amazing.
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Adventist scholarship simply broadens and sharpens the debate about the time of the book of Daniel's composition, just adding to your need to widen your research.
scholar JW
🤦♂️
Jeffro
My analysis of Daniel is consistent with the best scholarship. A deluded Watch Tower Society shill disagreeing with me in the Internet is hardly a ‘problem’ for me.
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Your so-called analysis is just a repetition of others who have traversed this path long before you for you add nothing new to this controversy. Your pathetic delusion on this subject is of no concern to me.
scholar JW
Jeffro
My analysis of Daniel is consistent with the best scholarship.
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You talk about the 'best scholarship' then what are the best sources that you have read or consulted?
scholar JW
Jeffro
Apart from you providing the sources you claim are consistent with your independent research, please provide two or three scriptures/lines of evidence from Daniel in support of your opinion, i.e the time of composition was of the 2nd century and not the 6th century. Reasons that would convince any reader of Daniel would suffice.
scholar JW
Jeffro
I’ve sufficiently shown readers that you are wrong and am not interested in pandering to your irrelevant demands.
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You have shown nothing of the sort and your attitude bespeaks intellectual cowardice.
scholar JW
'scholar':
Well if your opinion is truly based on your own independent research then you should be able to provide definitive reasons for your opinion as so far you have failed to do.
Ho hum...
Following is the list of assumptions I accept for my interpretations of Daniel:
Hi Jeffro, in some of my mine posts I said "about the year 30 C.E." - not "in the year 30 C.E." - for when I thought Jews (using calculations based upon the book of Daniel) were looking the Messiah and when Jesus began his ministry. That is because I didn't know the precise time period when the Jews were looking for the Messiah based upon calculations of Daniel (assuming the WT's claim was correct), and because I also didn't remember for certain the precise year (whether calculated by the WT or by various non-JW scholars - and scholars disagree as to what year Jesus began his ministry) began. It doesn't matter to me if the year was 26 C.E. or 30 CE., since to me that 4 year difference is minor compared to a time period of 490 years. It also doesn't matter to me since I thought that many of the Jews making the calculations might not have known what the precise year was for the start of 490 year time period.
I later looked it up in the first edition of the WT's Insight book and I noticed it said Jesus began his ministry in the fall of 29 C.E. - not in 30 C.E. Since you said 26 C.E. is the correct year last night I searched on the internet to see if a number of scholars say 30 C.E. and if a number of others say 26 C.E. It appears that most in our day say 26 C.E., but that some in our day say 30 C.E., and that some say 29 CE. Others say some other year.At https://cbs.mbts.edu/2020/04/08/april-3-ad-33-why-we-believe-we-can-know-the-exact-date-jesus-died/ Justin Taylor says that Jesus began his ministry in 29 (AD) C.E.and he states his reasons for that view, while acknowledging that most scholars say Jesus died in 30 AD (C.E.) instead of 33 AD (C.E). He is a Southern Baptist and executive vice president and publisher for books at Crossway, a major publisher of Christian books. Yet despite being such he came up with the same year for the start of Jesus' ministry as did the WT. He says that Jesus died on Nisan 15, AD 33 and that the date is also Friday, April 3. The WT says virtually the same thing, for it says that Jesus died on Friday (at about 3:00 PM), Nisan 14, 33 C.E. in the spring (see first edition of the Insight book).
Regarding whether the book of Daniel was written around 164 B.C.E or centuries earlier, I have read arguments for both time periods. To me both dates have strong arguments for them, and weaknesses for them. It seems that the only ones arguing for the 6th century date are those Christians who believe the entire Bible is inspired by God and true in all of its teachings. In contrast it seems that those scholars who teach a date of about 164 B.C.E. (I am not saying that precise year, but rather within 5 to 10 years of that year) consist of atheists and theologically liberal Christians (and maybe some theologically liberal Jews) who believe no human has the power (even with help from God) to make accurate detailed predictions hundreds of years in advance.
I am an atheist (and thus I believe there is no such thing as divine inspiration) and as a result of my research I lean towards the belief that the book of Daniel was written in the 2nd century B.C.E (about the year 164 B.C.E.), but I am not certain it was written then. Furthermore, I think that the second kingdom referred to in Daniel chapter two is Media-Persia instead of Media; that the third kingdom referred to is Greece (and its subsequent break up, in stages, into the the Ptolemaic and Seleucid kingdoms) instead of Persia; and that the fourth kingdom is Rome (whether in the form of the Republic of Rome, the Roman Empire, or a combination of both).
I found one Jewish religious commentary on the Hebrew Scriptures which can be read online in English (on the www.chabad.org website). That commentary is by Jewish scholar Rashi and was written in the middle ages, but I read a modern English translation of it. In regards to the 70 weeks prophecy it said that it extended to the time in which Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans under general Titus. According to https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199840731/obo-9780199840731-0128.xml Rashi was born in 1040 C.E. and died in 1106 C.E That web page says Rashi "was the single most influential Jewish Bible commentator of the Middle Ages." It also says the following. "He is certainly a centrally important figure in the history of Jewish biblical interpretation, and an argument can be made for his importance in the history of Christian biblical interpretation as well."
In part, the English translation of Rashi's commentary says the following regarding Daniel chapter 9 (at https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16492/jewish/Chapter-9.htm ). "the anointed one will be cut off: Agrippa, the king of Judea, who was ruling at the time of the destruction, will be slain.
... to terminate the transgression and to end sin: so that Israel should receive their complete retribution in the exile of Titus and his subjugation, in order that their transgressions should terminate, their sins should end, and their iniquities should be expiated, in order to bring upon them eternal righteousness and to anoint upon them (sic) the Holy of Holies: the Ark, the altars, and the holy vessels, which they will bring to them through the king Messiah. The number of seventy weeks is four hundred and ninety years. The Babylonian exile was seventy [years] and the Second Temple stood four hundred and twenty [years]."
The various commentaries I read disagree with each other in regards to various particulars and it is very hard (in regards to various particulars) to determine the correct meaning of a number of scripture passages. Studying the Bible is thus wearisome to my mind.
