Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast 539 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    ‘scholar’:

    As you are an advocate of the Maccabean hypothesis in relation to the timing of Daniel

    It’s not the Maccabean hypothesis”, it’s just the actual basis.

    then perhaps you can enlighten us as to whether Neb's tree dream was a real historical event and that Neb was vacant from the throne for a period of time?

    Haha. Of course it’s not historical. There isn’t even a suitable seven-year period in Nebuchadnezzar’s reign for it to have happened. But let the apologist movement spill forth (already attempting to water down to ‘a period of time’)... 😂 Can’t guarantee I’ll bother responding to your nonsense further though.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    “Maccabean hypothesis” is a nonsense term employed by Christian denominations that insist that Daniel is talking about Jesus. The mentality is similar to insisting that evolution is ‘just a theory’ or the term ‘allopathic medicine’ used by woo peddlers to dismissively refer to standard medical practices.

  • scholar
    scholar

    Jeffro

    It’s not the Maccabean hypothesis”, it’s just the actual basis.

    --

    Not so as it can be properly termed the 'Maccabean Thesis' or as the said scholar terms it as the 'Maccabean Hypothesis'. Your actual basis is actually your opinion.

    --

    Haha. Of course it’s not historical. There isn’t even a suitable seven-year period in Nebuchadnezzar’s reign for it to have happened. But let the apologist movement spill forth (already attempting to water down to ‘a period of time’)... 😂 Can’t guarantee I’ll bother responding to your nonsense further though.

    --

    So if the tree dream in Dan.4 is not historical and if it the book of Daniel is of the 2nd century BC presented as history then why was such such a tree dream included in the book?

    scholar JW


  • scholar
    scholar

    Jeffro

    “Maccabean hypothesis” is a nonsense term employed by Christian denominations that insist that Daniel is talking about Jesus. The mentality is similar to insisting that evolution is ‘just a theory’ or the term ‘allopathic medicine’ used by woo peddlers to dismissively refer to standard medical practices.

    --

    The Maccabean Thesis is simply that , with no firm evidence to support such a wild hypothesis for it originates with Porphyry, a critic of Christianity in the third century. Until 1890, the prevailing view amongst scholars was the acceptance of the 6th century as the period when the book was written. After 1890, there was a revival of Prophry and his theis has become the general view amongst scholars despite much evidence to the contrary.

    scholar JW

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    ‘scholar’:

    The Maccabean Thesis is simply that , with no firm evidence to support such a wild hypothesis for it originates with Porphyry, a critic of Christianity in the third century.

    Nope. Despite your attempt at ad hominem, direct analysis of Daniel confirms that it refers to rulers from the neo-Babylonian period up until the Seleucid period with special focus on Antiochus IV Epiphanes’ ban of Jewish worship from 168-165 BCE. Knowledge of or deference to Porphyry is not required.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    ‘scholar’:

    So if the tree dream in Dan.4 is not historical and if it the book of Daniel is of the 2nd century BC presented as history then why was such such a tree dream included in the book?

    The story about Nebuchadnezzar going mad borrows elements from a Babylonian story of Nabonidus. But the reference to ‘seven times’ is likely also a reference to the ‘seven sabbaths’ (49 years) from Jerusalem’s destruction in 587 BCE until the Jews returned in 538 BCE. In the context of Daniel’s main theme, that period of Jewish oppression and restoration is analogous to the ban of Jewish worship in 168 BCE until its restoration in 165 BCE.

  • scholar
    scholar

    Jeffro

    Nope. Despite your attempt at ad hominem, direct analysis of Daniel confirms that it refers to rulers from the neo-Babylonian period up until the Seleucid period with special focus on Antiochus IV Epiphanes’ ban of Jewish worship from 168-165 BCE. Knowledge of or deference to Porphyry is not required.

    ---

    What then is this direct analysis that you refer that confirms ruler from the NB Period up until the Seleucid Period?

    scholar JW

  • scholar
    scholar

    Jeffro

    The story about Nebuchadnezzar going mad borrows elements from a Babylonian story of Nabonidus. But the reference to ‘seven times’ is likely also a reference to the ‘seven sabbaths’ (49 years) from Jerusalem’s destruction in 587 BCE until the Jews returned in 538 BCE. In the context of Daniel’s main theme, that period of Jewish oppression and restoration is analogous to the ban of Jewish worship in 168 BCE until its restoration in 165 BCE.

    ---

    If Neb's madness was not an actual event being simply a story then why was such a myth placed into a historical period pertaining to Jewish oppression?

    What then is the book of Daniel's main theme?

    If Daniel was not a prophet and Daniel was simply a historical account of Jewish oppression of the 2nd century then why did Jesus refer to Daniel as a prophet and make reference to a future fulfilment as prophecy pertaining to Jerusalem?

    scholar JW

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    ‘scholar’:

    If Daniel was not a prophet and Daniel was simply a historical account of Jewish oppression of the 2nd century then why did Jesus refer to Daniel as a prophet and make reference to a future fulfilment as prophecy pertaining to Jerusalem?

    There’s no evidence Jesus said anything of the sort. Words attributed to Jesus in the anonymous ‘gospels’ written decades after his death are unverifiable, and in any case is a fallacious appeal to authority. Aside from that, those works mention Daniel because the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians is used as an allegory for the destruction by the Romans, just as it was used as an allegory in Daniel for Syrian oppression.

  • scholar
    scholar

    Jeffro

    How then can it be verified then that Daniel was written in the 2nd century BC and who its writer was especially as Dan.1::1 clearly assigns a 6th-century date for its composition and Dan.12:4 clearly states its writer, Daniel? and how can it be verified that the book ha in its 12 chapters in total has anything to do with Jewish persecution and events in the time of the Maccabees?

    scholar JW

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