Simple Question Re 1914 (page 25)

scholar

Jeffro

No, you’ve made a category error. 🤦‍♂️ Millenarians (specifically the belief in Christ’s second advent bringing about the 1,000 year reign) are Adventists. You may be confusing the term Adventist with the more specific ‘7th-day Adventists’ or some other offshoot. And the connections between the Millerite and Bible Student movements are well established. And all of them are offshoots of Protestantism.

If you really want to get specific, I suppose you could say JWs developed via the Bible Student movement via Adventism via Millerism via millennialism via Protestantism, but it still doesn’t get around their Adventist origins via Protestantism --

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Utter nonsense. Have you read the book that i cited-?

Jeffro

‘scholar’:

The Bible Students associated with the late Charles Russell became later identified as Jehovah's Witnesses.

Nope. That is a lie perpetuated by JWs. The branch of the Bible Student movement that retained control of the Watch Tower Society later adopted the name Jehovah’s Witnesses. Other Bible Student movement groups still exist, adhering more closely to Russell’s teachings to varying degrees.

Jeffro

‘scholar’:

Utter nonsense. Have you read the book that i cited-?

I don’t take reading suggestions from you, which is in any case a fallacious appeal to authority due to your category error. Your ‘reasoning’ is like hearing someone say, “Parisians are French people in the northern hemisphere” and objecting, “No, they’re European!”

Fisherman

The comparison of the parousia to the Flood of Noah emphasizes the suddenness of the event that will END an ongoing state of affairs. What was arriving to those on the earth was the Flood itself; it wasn't "invisibly present" beforehand.

You forgot to mention the ark being built and completed and Noah’s preaching ( a preacher of righteousness). They took no note. Jesus told the Pharisees: “ The kingdom of God os in your midst” It didn’t catch anybody by surprise, Noah was expecting a flood and the people were aware a flood was coming for 120 years. They just didn’t believe it. They were eating and drinking and rejecting the message from God. So the flood did not come unexpectedly without knowledge or warning. They were told that they were living in the time of the end. Noah didn’t know the day or the hour but he knew he was living in the time of the end. So, the flood did not come suddenly in the sense that nobody was expecting it to happen. The Parousia like the days of Noah involves a period of time, the time of the end identified by the sign of christ presence and people rejecting the good news of the kingdom until the climax when the son of man is revealed.

During the time of the end Jesus is riding a white horse so that is part of the Parousia First he came on a colt finally on a horse of war. He certainly is present riding that horse, conquering tilll a completion and other horses follow. “ Go subdoing in the MIDSTS of your enemies.” The Messiah was also invisible to the Jews. He was an elephant in the room performing miracles and doing God’s work in their midsts.

It was about Noah and the ark not about the flood. The flood was against God’s enemies, the ark and Noah for his friends. The sign of the son of man like the flood is for God’s enemies that didn’t take note.

Jeffro

Fisherman:

The Parousia like the days of Noah involves a period of time, the time of the end identified by the sign of christ presence and people rejecting the good news of the kingdom until the climax when the son of man is revealed.

An incorrect parsing of the analogy, but ultimately unimportant. In any case, the ‘parousia’ was explicitly described as occurring after the tribulation had ended, and within a generation of Jesus’ time.

scholar

Jeffro

I don’t take reading suggestions from you, which is in any case a fallacious appeal to authority due to your category error. Your ‘reasoning’ is like hearing someone say, “Parisians are French people in the northern hemisphere” and objecting, “No, they’re European

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Just read the book that I cited otherwise your comments are useless.

scholar JW

scholar

Jeffro

Nope. That is a lie perpetuated by JWs. The branch of the Bible Student movement that retained control of the Watch Tower Society later adopted the name Jehovah’s Witnesses. Other Bible Student movement groups still exist, adhering more closely to Russell’s teachings to varying degrees.
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False. That group of Bible Students who were known and recognized under that name under the direction of Russell and his associates later became known as Jehovah's Witnesses.
scholar JW
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Jeffro

Entirely and obviously wrong. Many of Russell’s original adherents had left by the time of the name change.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Tower_Society_presidency_dispute_(1917)

Fisherman

the ‘parousia’ was explicitly described as occurring after the tribulation had ended, and within a generation of Jesus’ time.

Not at all. There was no parousia involving the whole earth in 70 and a Millennium that followed. Also, Jesus returns invisible riding a war horse before the great tribulation.

An incorrect parsing of the analogy, but ultimately unimportant

You are no trier of law here only an advocate like me. Onus is on you to debunk or show how irrelevant. I’ve shown it is relevant.

Jeffro

‘scholar’:

Just read the book that I cited otherwise your comments are useless.

Huh? That makes no sense whatsoever. The facts of the origins of the Bible Student movement and associated denominations are not contingent on me reading anything in particular, and certainly not just because you say so. The Bible Student movement did not develop directly nor exclusively from millenarianism, and all of the relevant branches developed from Protestantism. It seems you are just trying to impress people by making yourself appear well-read (as you often attempt on this forum), even though you don’t accept what scholarly sources actually say on many subjects anyway. Just go away.

Simple Question Re 1914

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