The Fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity (page 4)

ILoveTTATT2

I don't believe in 'freedom of religion', in the American way. The recent arrest of JWS in the middle east as a form of religious suppression does not bother me.

How many times have people on this forum wished that they could SUE the Watchtower for their violation of human rights? Well, if religion violates human rights, then it should be outlawed. Sue for money, put them in jail; comme ci, comme ca ... ppffttt!

I have always taken a 'soft stance' with Xtians on this forum, and supported their right to be heard. I still support that. But if countries (even Russia or China or Afghanistan or any place) want to ban religion, or JW, or any 'belief', I am all for it! Let the revolution begin! Down with G-d!

(No disrespect meant to any deists. If you wish to believe in fairy tales, so be it.)

Simon

They are fundamentally different. For me, the most important is this:

Christians may think people re sinners etc... but they believe that the judgement will be by god, so the vast majority are benign.

Muslim belief is that it's their responsibility to do the smiting, killing and raping and that those things are OK, so it is a way more dangerous ideology.

To put it bluntly. Anyone who thinks Islam and Christianity are in any way comparable is an utter tool and dishonest shill. They are not. Islam is murderous and barbaric. It was founded on murder and oppression and has that as it's rotten core throughout.

Anyone who cares about human rights, values and humanity cannot support or defend Islam or welcome it or any of it's trappings into our culture.

I find it laughable and the height of hypocrisy how some want to treat their WTS experience as the height of suffering and injustice and then they turn around and try to defend Islam.

Muslim Apostates / Ex-Muslim voices need our support, not Islam.

cognisonance

Regarding the disturbing PEW study the OP pointed out. I found a relevant article, Bill Maher and Sam Harris’ proof is wrong: Their argument is based on an untrustworthy poll, where it brings up an important point:

Am I saying that Maher and Harris are right in asserting that Muslims in general—or in other words, in their majority—hold savagely violent, intolerant and misogynistic views? That would be the case if I trusted the Pew poll. But I don’t. What I am questioning here is not the methodology of the respected research Institute, but rather the genuineness of the answers provided by many of the 38,000 individuals it surveyed. Just picture the typical polling interview. Imagine you live in a country where Islam is the religion of the State, where criticizing the religion (let alone leaving it) is a criminal offense, where the educational system and the pervasive state media gang up every day to hammer that Islam is the highest moral norm ever—where, hell, even the opposition (mostly made of Islamist groups) does nothing but double down on religious intransigence… And here comes the Pew pollster, a total stranger with a list of disturbing questions pertaining to religion—questions to which the wrong answers can get you in trouble in many ways… Not the best conditions to conduct a credible opinion poll.
Polls, of course, are anonymous, and trained pollsters have their ways to fabricate empathy, including asking the interviewees if they had a good day before engaging them on more serious matters. But as nice as a warming-up chitchat might be, it simply cannot fend off the self-preservation instinct built over a lifetime’s experience of psychological pressure. Of course, the extent of the pressure (which itself depends on the extent to which religion is used as a political tool for social control) varies from one Muslim country to another. But then, so do the answers. While the Pew numbers indicate a high prevalence of the opinion that Sharia should be the law of the land in countries where Islam is the religion of the State (91 percent in Iraq, 83 percent in Morocco, 74 percent in Egypt…), the rate drops to 12 percent in Turkey, where secularism is a forefront constitutional principle. In other words, the more the questioned citizens are coerced into religiosity, the more likely they are to pick the safest answers—those consistent with what they were force-fed about religion since they were kids—when a pollster comes around.

So are Muslims in the US and other secularized countries lying about their disapproval of Sharia? Or that the Muslims under Sharia are lying about their support of it? Which seems more plausible? I'm inclined to think the latter.

cofty

I have always taken a 'soft stance' with Xtians on this forum, and supported their right to be heard. I still support that. But if countries (even Russia or China or Afghanistan or any place) want to ban religion, or JW, or any 'belief', I am all for it! Let the revolution begin! Down with G-d! - Talesin

I could not disagree more.

Freedom of belief and worship is fundamental to a civilised society. As an anti-theist I would fight for freedom of religion. Superstition will continue to fade in its own time as we combat it with evidence and reason.

Your cavalier attitude to personal freedom is chilling.

On the other hand we should have zero tolerance of oppressive actions that hide behind religion. Of all the religions in the world Islam is the slow kid in the class.

Simon

Your cavalier attitude to personal freedom is chilling.

The left are quick to abandon the principles they claim to hold - the wind changes direction and they are immediately buttoning up their brown shirts and pulling their jack-boots on!

"Some dictator said something we agree with? All hail the new king! Why don't we round up some jews while we're at it ..."

The left seem very confused. They seem to imagine that if someone wants to oppress some group that they don't like then that makes them OK and "friends". They support oppression and don't realize that any oppressive regime will one day turn on them.

Simon

Just saw a great quote from philosopher Karl Popper in "The Open Society and Its Enemies" which he described this as “the paradox of tolerance”:

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

Anyone who truly values tolerance and a good decent society is duty bound to resist the advance of Islam.

Simon

So are Muslims in the US and other secularized countries lying about their disapproval of Sharia? Or that the Muslims under Sharia are lying about their support of it? Which seems more plausible? I'm inclined to think the latter.

The fact that many are willing to come out and say they agree with some truly horrific practices and positions even when they live in the west shows to me that the problem is bigger than the stats from these polls suggest.

I can't see people openly voicing to a pollster that gays should be killed for instance if they didn't truly believe it. But I can see people being deceptive and saying they don't support it even if they do.