Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 71 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • GodBeliever

    We just can go on and on like this. I told you what I believe and ultimately is God through Jesus who will judge anyone according to their standing.

    The Jewish people were waiting fo Messiah but when Jesus came they did not believe that he was the one. He proclaimed the message of the kingdom that was about to come but they rejected that message. You know what happened to them.

    Let's say hypothetically that Jesus returned as king in heaven and He moved some honest people and commissioned them to announce the newly established kingdom. What will happen to those of christianity who do not believe and reject Jesus's second coming. Are they not in the same position as the Jewish nation who by the way they still waiting for Messiah?

    "I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?” Luke 18:8

    For the Lord will rise up as at Mount Perazim, He will be stirred up as in the Valley of Gibeon, To do His task, His unusual task, And to work His work, His extraordinary work. And now do not carry on as scoffers, Or your shackles will be made stronger; For I have heard from the Lord God of armies Of decisive destruction on all the earth. Listen and hear my voice, Pay attention and hear my words. Does the farmer plow continually to plant seed? Does he continually turn and break up his ground?" Isaiah 28:21‭-‬24

    "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?" Isaiah 53:1

    And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    Matthew 24:12‭-‬14

    I don't see there will be another gospel preached from now on. We are at the moment in time when people moving away from everything is God.

    As for Jehovah's witnesses literature I only read anything until 1949. Although there is some truth in it after that, I believe they started falling away from the truth as the bible predicted and ultimately they have become the evil servant they are today.

    "It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority was given to him over every tribe, people, language, and nation. All who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered. If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints."

    Revelation 13:7‭-‬8‭, ‬10

  • Vanderhoven7

    Hi Godbeliever,

    I see you don't want to answer my question about what is necessary to be believed to be saved. Why do you think that is? Could it be that in your heart of hearts you know that the following beliefs are absolutely not part of the gospel of salvation Paul preached?

    To be saved, must one believe;

    f. Jesus invisible second presence began in October 1914?

    g. Jesus raised the sleeping saints in the spring of 1918?

    h. Jesus rejected all the churches of Christendom in the fall of 1918?

    i. Jesus appointed the Faithful Slave in Brooklyn NewYork in 1919?

    j. Joseph Rutherford was one of the appointees?

    Why not just answer the question without any unrelated smokescreen scripture texts?

  • GodBeliever

    I believe all to be corect.

  • BoogerMan

    @ Godbeliever, you said, "I believe the faithful slave that was chosen by Jesus at his second coming in heaven."

    I asked you this question, but you didn't give an answer:

    Since "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof," what extraordinary evidence convinced you personally that the "faithful slave" of JW's was chosen by Jesus, rather than the LDS 12 Apostles, Archbishop of Canterbury, or the Pope?

    If any other active JW's wants to provide the proof, I'm only too willing to listen/discuss.

  • Vanderhoven7

    Hi Godbeliever

    Correct and necessary to believe to survive Armageddon?

  • GodBeliever

    Hi Vanderhoven,

    For there is no good tree that bears bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree that bears good fruit. For each tree is known by its own fruit. For people do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. The good person out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil person out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.
    Luke 6:43‭-‬45
    Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I am going to the Father.
    John 14:12
    But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. Beloved, I urge you as foreigners and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts, which wage war against the soul. Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God on the day of visitation.
    1 Peter 2:9‭-‬12

    What use is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? In the same way, faith also, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. But are you willing to acknowledge, you foolish person, that faith without works is useless? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
    James 2:14‭-‬20‭, ‬22‭-‬24

    Faith and good works are inseparable.

  • Vanderhoven7

    Hi Godbeliever,

    I'm sure you try your best to serve Jehovah. Too bad the Watchtower Society doesn't see you in the same light. They would probably tag you as Apostate and you know what happens to them at or even before Armageddon.

    But we are not talking about your good works and others insufficient works. We are talking only about necessary beliefs for salvation.

    If someone is really has a lot of good works and believes and preaches Paul's gospel but they don't believe that Jesus' second presence has occurred yet or that God has appointed the Faithful Slave yet, is it possible that they could survive Armageddon anyway?

    Is that a yes or a no according to your understanding?

  • GodBeliever


    This is my answer to your question.

    Why Jehovah's witnesses?

    Apostle John had a vision in revelation 17, where he was shown a prostitute sitting on many waters and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery: “BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."Revelation 17:5 , and of this woman who is drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.
    Revelation 17:6.

    She is not guilty of murdering only the saints but also of a lot of other innocent people throughout history by causing war and by keeping people away from the truths of the bible so they can't find salvation in the blood of Christ.

    Then a strong angel picked up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will never be found again. and the light of a lamp will never shine in you again; and the voice of the groom and bride will never be heard in you again; for your merchants were the powerful people of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your witchcraft. And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”
    Revelation 18:21‭, ‬23‭-‬24
    John identified this prostitute as the city of Rome. And he *said to me, “The waters which you saw where the prostitute sits are peoples and multitudes, and nations and languages. The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”
    Revelation 17:15‭, ‬18 .
    If you follow the course of history you will see that the roman empire adopted christianity and eventually became The today Romano catholic church which is based in Rome at Vatican. This religious institution grew strong and for long time controlled the world through different European powers. They also continued to teach pagan doctrines and follow pagan and roman traditions. They even used the same oppression techniques as the bloodthirsty roman empire.
    God does not accept such institution.

    God tells his people to flee out of "Babylon" this church empire that caused so much suffering. "The Lord has bared His holy arm In the sight of all the nations, So that all the ends of the earth may see The salvation of our God. Depart, depart, go out from there, Do not touch what is unclean; Go out of the midst of her, purify yourselves, You who carry the vessels of the Lord."Isaiah 52:10‭-‬11
    “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive any of her plagues; for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her offenses.
    Revelation 18:4‭-‬5
    Although other protestant movements left the catholic church, " Babylon the great", only Jehovah's witnesses listened to God's comand not to touch anything on their way out while fleeing.
    As for all the others, they took all or some with them from the catholic church such as pagan doctrines and traditions which God do not accept.

    "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; But their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
    Matthew 15:8‭-‬9. And Paul also said this to the Corinthians who became Christians but they were still respecting pagan traditions."However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are not gods. But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles, to which you want to be enslaved all over again? You meticulously observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.
    Galatians 4:8‭-‬11
    For the radical position Jehovah's witnesses adopted regarding anything coming from the catholic church, they were harshly punished and falsely accused.
    "The beliefs and practices of Jehovah's Witnesses have engendered controversy throughout their history. Consequently, the denomination has been opposed by local governments, communities, and religious groups. Many Christian denominations consider the interpretations and doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses heretical, and some professors of religion have classified the denomination as a cult.[1][2]

    According to law professor Archibald Cox, Jehovah's Witnesses in the United States were "the principal victims of religious persecution … they began to attract attention and provoke repression in the 1930s, when their proselytizing and numbers rapidly increased."[3] At times, political and religious animosity against Jehovah's Witnesses has led to mob action and governmental repression in various countries including the United States, Canada and Nazi Germany."

    Nobody can deny that late 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century humanity went through the most spectacular transformation in its entire history. I believe that coincides with the second coming of Jesus in heaven and the start of His kingdom. Jehovah's witnesses are the ones Jesus have chosen to announce the Kingdom message.

    However lately the have fell under the Satan influence as the bible predicted and they have become part of the world (the evil slave that is mentioned in the bible)

  • GodBeliever

    When I said they have fallen under the influence of Satan I meant the leadership. Otherwise I believe there are many honest and good people in the faith.

    ‘For wicked people are found among My people, They watch like fowlers lying in wait; They set a trap, They catch people. ‘Like a cage full of birds, So their houses are full of deceit; Therefore they have become great and rich. ‘They are fat, they are sleek, They also excel in deeds of wickedness; They do not plead the cause, The cause of the orphan, so that they may be successful; And they do not defend the rights of the poor. ‘Shall I not punish them for these things?’ declares the Lord, ‘Or shall I not avenge Myself On a nation such as this?’ ¶“An appalling and horrible thing Has happened in the land: The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests rule on their own authority; And My people love it this way! But what will you do when the end comes?

    Jeremiah 5:26‭-‬31

  • Vanderhoven7

    Hi Godbeliever,

    Why is getting a straight answer from you like pulling teeth? I could understand if you were a Jehovah’s Witness because they do not want to admit or even receive anything critical of the Watchtower Society.

    I will ask the question one more time.

    Do you think that it is possible that some who don't believe that Jesus presence (parousia) has occurred yet could be among those who survive Armageddon?

    Let me provide two possible answers you might consider...

    Yes I believe it is possible.

    No I believe it impossible.

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