The paranormal.

by Lost in the fog 68 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Simon
    I did observe a number of happenings that cannot be explained by science

    Just because you cannot explain it and instead leap to "it must be magic" doesn't mean it's magic.

    also there is evidence , people catch them on video and pictures

    Except no, they don't, and never have. Watch any "ghost hunter" type show - there's always amazing things that were revealed ... unfortunately "just after we turned our cameras off!" (but here's audio of us screaming and saying "OMG, that must have been a ghost!" to convince the mentally feeble).

  • dynamiterose77

    I interviewed James Randi on the phone. Nothing about him was making fun of others. He is an educator. He is far more concerned about frauds that bilk people out of their life savings because they claim to be Shaman or whatnot. People like these "psychics" you see on TV that LITERALLY charge thousands of dollars to "talk" to your dead grandma. He's not making fun of those that believe it, because the people that believe it just aren't aware of the tricks... as a former magician, he educates people about the tricks. Also, I have to be a bit grateful to Randi as it was HIS book, "Encyclopedia of claims, frauds, and hoaxes" that first planted a seed of doubt about JWs. It was this book that told me about how the organizations beliefs were actually founded... by measuring pyramids.

    The reason no one has won the million dollar challenge is because supernatural phenomena, if real, would still work under scientific observation with controls in place. For example, a person claiming that they were able to conduct a seance where the table was raised by spirits, wasn't allowed to bring their own table. The control table wasn't able to be tipped by usual means by a fraudster, so the individual failed, because they couldn't press the edge of the table or fit their toe under a leg. Others have genuinely believed they had powers, but were disproven as well. One in particular I always remember was a person that believed that they could mummify flesh with a touch, and they would hold a piece of chicken and sit it on the counter only to find that it had dried out in a few days... the person didn't take into account that they lived in a dry desert climate. They made jerky.

    Also, Randi still holds that there is always the possibility that there are supernatural events that take place, but, they need to be real and observable. Even Houdini held this belief while exposing fraud spiritualists. Some people say that it brings hope and closure to loved ones left behind... but that only opens the door for frauds to take advantage and suddenly grandma can't pay her rent since she gave away her pension. These people are no better than those IRS frauds that called people saying that there was a warrant out for their arrest if they didn't pay several thousand dollars. It plays into fear and exploits the vulnerable.

    As I said before, I had at one time THOUGHT I had observed supernatural phenomena. In particular in a place I worked, in one particular part of the building. Turns out, the weirdness that was happening was due to very old wiring. Its often called a "fear cage," where the electrical fields can cause individuals to experience phenomena often associated with being near "spirits." I've also experienced "hagging," which scared the living daylights out of me as a kid, but after learning the mechanics of sleep paralysis, I haven't had it since. I also believed at one point I was being followed by the spirit of a cat, I would catch things out of the corner of my eye... nothing more than shadows and lack of sleep. I've seen photos taken by friends that say "look at this face!" and it's wood grain, nothing more than Pareidolia. I've seen "shadow men videos" many are obviously doctored to the point I can see pixels in the images. I also work with photoshop, so I know what to look for with edges and blurring... Most photos are modern cottingley fairies type situations, people goofing around and then it goes viral and they have to stick with their story as it goes viral. Even the creator of a Loch Ness photo came out and exposed his own fraud.

    And for a kicker... I was married on the Queen Mary, the "most haunted" ship etc... I asked the guy that worked for them for marketing and events about the ghosts. He rolled his eyes. "I made a lot of those up myself"

    But haunted things make for good tourist attractions...

  • Finkelstein

    Human ignorance doesn't validate or give firm support of paranormal magical spiritualism.

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Lost_In_The_Fog asked, "But what about the unseen spirit world generally such as poltergeists, jinns, voodoo, etc.(?)"

    I am an atheist. I believe there is no "spirit realm" inhabited by any sort of being: No gods, no ghosts, no ghouls, no souls, no devils, demons, sprites or 7-Ups. Not even a Being Crosby.

    So how do I explain "Strange phenomena"?

    Well, first of all there is LYING. It seems many have never heard of this phenomena, but I assure you it is totally real. Here's how it works: a person says something happened that never did actually happen. There are people who make good livings by lying. One example of this is the clergy of any religion, followed by the "royal families" of any nation, followed by the people who sell and promote homeopathic "medicine." This list is not complete and could be much, much, much longer.

    This is followed by misapprehension. It is funny, but while people will admit that there are SOME crazy people in the world, it never occurs to them that THEY might be one of the crazy people who ought not trust their limited and defective senses. They will tell you with absolute sincerity that "they know what they saw"or heard or tasted or felt. They are the 100% accurate perceivers of absolute quantum reality and everyone else is wrong.

    Yes, I get the irony here - you want me to examine myself, don't you?

    I have.

    I have been entertained by optical illusions, I have experienced auditory hallucinations, and I have seen things that might - or might not - have been there. I have had well-intentioned people predict my future and I have paid to have my horoscope drawn up. I have also dismissed ALL of this as meaningless "entertainment."

    Why is it that when the dead speak they sound like lunatics who can barely remember their own name, let alone their favorite color? Bring me the ghost of J. P. Morgan - or even Nick Darvas - and let him give me some actionable information, and I'll consider becoming a believer, but until the it is just J.Z. Knight hawking her idiot alter ego Ramtha-Lama-Ding-Dong!

    But you know what? If YOU want to believe this crap and give your money to fake Xtian fakirs, magic soofis, healing monk-eys, or psychic detectives on a cacye from the flying spaghetti monster himself, knock yourself out! I couldn't care less - UNLESS your ghost tells you to cause harm to another person, in which case I will be at your door with a pitchfork in one hand and a torch in the other and a shotgun in the other. Fair enough?

  • Bungi Bill
    Bungi Bill
    Just because you cannot explain it and instead leap to "it must be magic" doesn't mean it's magic.

    That might be a valid point - except at no stage did I make any claims about it being "magic".

    I would sure like to know what it was, though!

  • Simon

    The paranormal / supernatural is the same as magic - defying normal / rational / provable science.

  • Brokeback Watchtower
    Brokeback Watchtower


    I would sure like to know what it was, though!

    I'm thinking maybe the brain has developed abilities to read other peoples thoughts, evolution may have hit on it as it would be a definite advantage for survival of the fittest to pass on in their DNA.

    I think also the probability of universe being simulation and the Many Worlds Interpetation many offer some possible explanation.

    To be an extreme materialist leaves only a narrow window to look at the world, it is good to leave a little more room for explanations of these things, Many Worlds, and a computer simulation hypothesis may be something a materialist could use if they loosen up a bit.

  • Brokeback Watchtower
    Brokeback Watchtower

    O and I think this guy is very entertaining in reading his audience I'm sure his hits get better and better as he practices his art. Everybody's got to make a living and it is a ++ if you're good at it and enjoy it and people get some type of relief by it! At least he seems to, me I'm more into music myself and would like to unleash my psychic powers in that direction

  • dynamiterose77

    John Edward is not a Psychic. He does a parlor trick that has been around for decades called cold reading. He doesn't 'see' anything that his audience doesn't respond to. He asks “I feel like there’s a J- or G-sounding name attached to this.” and waits for anyone to say "OH that could be George." and Edward says "Yes, that's it!" He didn't see anything, an audience member gave him a target. He then proceeds to look at the person, and makes general assumptions based on the law of averages regarding their age, etc. He will never say anything direct like "There is a man named George that left behind his wife, Mary and his son Phil... he says look in the back of the desk drawer for the keys." It's all based on generalities that people who are bereaved and hopeful can read into... after paying him several hundred dollars. (according to his site, a private reading is $850, he also does workshops at around $700 and goes on tours where tickets can be hundreds of dollars. He's no different from televangelists begging for money.)

  • caves

    Im actually glad that some of you have never had experiences that were super natural. You couldn't handle it.

    About Randi. Hoax and fraud were strong words, and that doesn't mean that I personally disagree or agree with what he does and what he is about. I simply put links up dispelling the million dollar thing. One straight from his own site. The other was just opinions and bias observations that I found interesting. Just google it.

    As far as the links I put them there and followed them after posting. So I dont know what happened . Maybe a ghost. lol

    Question, Why is that when the police cant find a murderer they turn to physics for drawings and/or information.

    I've known several people that do physic work with law enforcement.And actually nail the criminal.

    Humm? Can anyone explain this?

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