Living with Islam

by fulltimestudent 71 Replies latest social current

  • TheWonderofYou

    The founder of the modern Republic of Turkey, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk said

    on October 29, 1923: " There may be a many great countries in the world, but there is only one civilisation (the West) and if a nation is to achieve progress she must be part of this one civilisation. The Ottoman empire began to decline the day when it cut ties that bound her to the european nations. We will not repeat this mistake."
    quoted in Bozdaglioglu, Turkish Foreign policy and turkish identity P. 51.

    (This view is opposite of that held by turkish islamist, to the leaders of the ideologic group the once-glorious ottoman empire began to decline and disintegrate when it started to imitate the West (Hale and Özbudun, Islamis, Democracy and Liberalism in Turkey p.6.)

    [Source: "The Clash of Ideologies" by Mark L. Haas, p 202]

    As many hope that modern Turkey can be a bridge between ideologies and between East and West this may be interesting

    Here some further opinions held by Atatürk, who is "adored" by turkish people.

    • Religion is an important institution. A nation without religion cannot survive. Yet it is also very important to note that religion is a link betweenAllah and the individual believer. The brokerage of the pious cannot be permitted. Those who use religion for their own benefit are detestable. We are against such a situation and will not allow it. Those who use religion in such a manner have fooled our people; it is against just such people that we have fought and will continue to fight. Know that whatever conforms to reason, logic, and the advantages and needs of our people conforms equally to Islam. If our religion did not conform to reason and logic, it would not be the perfect religion, the final religion.
    • As quoted in Kemalizm, Laiklik ve Demokrasi [Kemalism, Laicism and Democracy] (1994) by Ahmet Taner Kışlalı
    • "I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government; it is as if he would catch his people in a trap. My people are going to learn the principles of democracy, the dictates of truth and the teachings of science.Superstition must go. Let them worship as they will; every man can follow his own conscience, provided it does not interfere with sane reason or bid him against the liberty of his fellow-men."
    • Quoted in Atatürk: The Biography of the founder of Modern Turkey, by Andrew Mango; "In a book published in 1928, Grace Ellison quotes [Atatürk], presumably in 1926-27", Grace Ellison Turkey Today (London: Hutchinson, 1928) [ found]
  • TheWonderofYou
  • Ruby456

    greetings to you too, thewonderofyou

    there is a huge difference between turkey and other Islamic regions - it never experienced european colonial rule.

    Regions that did experience colonial rule used Islam to gain a sense of dignity because of the disdain they received from their colonial rulers. So their motive is different. I'm not here arguing on whether or not there ought or ought not to be disdain but that there is a historical context that makes Turkey different from say Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Palestine. Political Islam was born in different conditions to Turkey and there is a lot to be said in favour of muslims who want use religious ideology and idiom to frame their politics and to participate in it. At least they are not conscientious objectors to politics like Jehovahs witnesses.

    nice to talk to you btw

  • freemindfade
    muslims have to suffer

    Really ruby? How can you even begin to blame anyone else for any nervousness people have about members of a religion who are regularly radicalized?

    Or that are promised so many gifts from God if they die committing jihad.

    When was the last time you say anyone else from any other religious group posting pictures holding the head of someone they beheaded?

    Being afraid of a religion is not a phobia and it's not a racism. Religions are idiotic and full of harmful teachinge, that's why as the rest of the word makes progress religion becomes less popular. Only the illiterate ignorance of the Muslim world is growing. Other religions grew out of their barbarity your precious Islam is growing into it by the day.

    No matter how much you protest criticism of this pathetic religion, its a disease that should be vaccinated off the earth like all Abrahamic ideals. No matter how you slice it or how many moderates there are its a breeding ground and incubator for violent radicals. And I'm not talking just about isis. Even the "moderates" abusing their wives, celebrating when the extremists harm others, or passing hate on to their children. Enough. Your religion is bad as they come

  • LoveUniHateExams

    there is a huge difference between turkey and other Islamic regions - it never experienced european colonial rule - also: the Turks, via the Ottoman Empire, imposed colonial rule themselves over other Islamic regions, as did the Arab Caliphates before them.

    You seem quick to speak against European colonialism whilst brushing Islamic colonialism under the carpet. Why?

    there is a lot to be said in favour of muslims who want use religious ideology and idiom to frame their politics - yeah, most of it bad

  • freemindfade
    Blaming "western colonialism" sounds like something radical Islam would preach to me.
  • cappytan

    I don't think Ruby saw my recent post, so I'll repeat it here for his/her benefit. (I'm assuming her, but hey, you never know.)

    Look. You guys should learn to live with Islam Watchtower. Islam Watchtower is a religion of peace. Yes, there are some at the top that say crazy things, and there are some individuals in the Mosquecongregation that treat people badly and try to excuse cover up terrorism pedophilia.
    But that doesn't matter. We need to learn to live with them. Let's make every possible excuse. Stop calling Islam Watchtower an evil organization! What ever happened to tolerance! You all are bigots!
  • mana11
  • Ruby456
  • Ruby456
    sittin here thinking of how to reply but as none came to me - feemindfade, luvuni, mana, cappytan - I do love you all

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