Quit Quietly now more than ever

by gone for good 80 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

gone for good

Earrnest and Phizzy -
You both are horribly confused !
The ONLY issue for leavers is - "How do I regain my freedom of religion from this abusive nasty cult?"
All democratic governments (state/provincial and federal) guarantee freedom of religion to their citizens.
The government and courts don't know which citizens are wanting their freedom back from a nasty abusive cult, and which citizens are enjoying the graceful company and charitable works of a happy, loving church.
Here how they find out who needs the help of the courts-
Individuals exercise the guaranteed right to freedom by simply declaring themselves to be free - by actions and deliberate words.
Churches who respect universal human rights may well react in a dignified, nonthreatening, even kind manner, wishing the leaver well on their continuing spiritual journey. Few, if any, friendships might be lostbut certainly not your loved ones and true friends.
Then there are Jehovahs Witnesses - who consider the pursuit of religious freedom as a crime (Apostasy) and use their own invented doctrines to scourge the freedom seeker, by labeling him as an apostate and coercing the entire congregation (including the seekers family an and loved ones to ostracise and shame him.
Remember - this is Jehovahs Witnesses reaction to someone who seeks to claim a human right guaranteed by their democratic governments.
It is illegal to interfere with or coerce someone who wishes to or has exercised a legal right, the coercion, interference are no different than the actual denying of that right. . Read this sentence again
Ms. Spiess made clear that JWs violate human rights law with such interference and coercion. The ecclesiastic heights know this as they are the ones who fabricated their doctrines to dissuade, even scare JWS from ever seeking to be free.
WT/JW never mention that religious freedom is available to be claimed by EVERYONE INDIVIDUALLY not just churches and organizations
Freedom of religious legislation grants churches the freedom to concoct, twist and teach any hateful, dishonest, manipulative doctrines they can spew, but they simply cannot violate the rights of persons who claim their right to be free of those same doctrines
Earnest -
Defamation has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue of how to exercise our right to religious freedom.
It was simply the charge with which Watchtower hoped to intimidate and silence Ms. Spiess. It blew up right in their lying faces,
gone for good

Phizzy -
THE LETTER IS YOUR CLAIM TO FREEDOM OF RELIGION !!
Once the letter is finished you are free because you claimed your freedom in the letter !
No more ecclesiastic authority can be brought to bear as you are no longer a member- you have claimed your freedom in writing and superseded their authority with your own.
Democracies guarantee human rights to all from your first breath - you didn't have to claim it like you did a license, you always had it - it's written in stone.
Separation of church and state means that freedom is the norm and only willing submission of membership in cults can suspend it. sSince membership is voluntary - the state need not interfere in ecclesistical affairs to restore a persons freedom - they do it themselves by simply ending the membership and claiming the freedom as their own
We willingly suspended our human rights by becoming members of a religion whose doctrine and discipline involves intimidating members from ever leaving and punishing members who have or are about to leave.
Can you imagine on what grounds a church could possibly disregard your claim to freedom of religion??Apostasy?? There are no laws on apostasy in democracies - . to abandon or change is a right not a crime.
On what grounds could they possibly dispute the fact that their own authority over you has been rescinded in writing? The courts do not and cannot force ecclesiastic authority upon those who have rescinded membership and the authority of the church - to enforce ecclesiastic law would itself be a violation of religious freedoms committed by the court itself !
It's all about membership -restarting your secular freedoms by ending the cult membership.
Timing is paramount -preempt and repudiate ecclesiastical interference in strong terms '
The threats will never need to be acted on because there are simply no grounds whatsoever upon which they can contest your actions.in a court.
Ain't nobody goin' to court with this plan - ever.
Phizzy

Thanks GFG, I was confused, not about the original idea, as outlined again in your Posts above, but confused about if someone wanted to use the Letter to make sure, if they were merely in fact secretly disassociating, to make sure no Announcement to that effect was made at any point in the future, so that they were fully free to associate with family and friends who were JW's, could the Letter be used, in conjunction with the Law, to achieve this ?
I think probably not, if the JW's wish to Announce it, then that is what will happen, no Law could easily be used to stop that.
But I think what I missed mainly, and you have made plainer, is that if The Letter is done, and nobody else, apart from the trusted person assigned to care for it, knows about it, then in reality you ARE free ! That is a wonderful feeling for your mental health, and feeling of self worth.
In my situation, not DA'd, there is always that feeling of having to "look over your shoulder" , careful what you say and do in the sight or hearing of J.W's. Once the letter is done, stuff 'em ! do and say what you like !
It may still work out that if you are threatened with DAing, then production of The Letter may stop them doing anything further, they may well think "What's the point?", but it depends upon circumstances, particularly what provoked in the "loving" Elders the desire to take action against you.
Another thought, if at some time a family member or members decided, without the Elders being involved, to have no association with you, if you showed them The Letter, what Scriptural reason (real one, not just interpretation) could they use for such action ? "Quit mixing with a Brother that..." or whatever it says won't work, you are not a spiritual brother or sister, not a Jehovah's Witness, such unilateral action by them would have little Scriptural basis in reality.
dubstepped

Call me when this works for people on the regular and they don't end up shunned. The rest is just noise. Watchtower doesn't care about your rights which is why I referred to them as a loophole earlier. It is to Watchtower. The results will be the same even if they have to pivot and just use some other way to label you like saying you disassociated by your actions. Same outcome. People are shunned by them that have never even officially left. I don't see what this does other than provide false hope to people.
gone for good

Phizzy -
I'm so delighted to see you make the connection that your letter IS your exercise of a human right.
Sign, dated, witnessed, and specifying explicitly the actions of violations you will no longer tolerate - I think you have a very substantial legal document to stop congregational persecution dead in its tracks.
Phizzy, you raised an amazing congruent point in your last paragraph ! - thank you so much for it..
The unstoppable knock on effect within the congregation!
Most (I would assert ALL) of the shunning is not really voluntary reaction by individuals but rather is the result of the industrial level coercion from the ecclesiastical chain overhead -bullying to be blunt.
To have legally shed the cult status of "Brother" without ecclesiastic censure will certainly not go unnoticed inside the congregation.
When your loved ones (and true friends) realize that they can now "scripturally" associate freely with you - they will soon appreciate exactly how great a freedom you achieved with a simple well-timed, well-written letter.
If the elders attempt to harass your associates their first and obvious realization will be "....I need to write a letter also - just like Phizzys'" Then their friends get freedom-envy and they think "... I need to write a letter" etc. etc,
As for me and my household, we can almost hear the Watchtower splitting to pieces.
HowTheBibleWasCreated

This is almost irrelivant though I did make a small notepad document out I may print and sign later. The reason I see this is being somewhat irrelivant is that right now there are 1. No meeting
2. No field service.
Fading? It's a no brainer. and since we need to wait a year or so for meeting to organize again by then the fader will be inactive almost a year or more. Ignore elder calls if any and you are out. DONE
hybridous

Most (I would assert ALL) of the shunning is not really voluntary reaction by individuals but rather is the result of the industrial level coercion from the ecclesiastical chain overhead -bullying to be blunt.
This is a false dichotomy. The bullying and voluntary actions are not mutually exclusive.
The bullying is present, but individual JWs still have to CHOOSE to follow the religious commands. Individual JWs are responsible for their actions.
Don't let individual JWs off the hook for the role they play in abuse. Without their willingness to shun, the 'ecclesiastical chain overhead' has no power at all.
gone for good

HowTheBibleWasCreated -
No meetings and no service create a unique opportunity for leavers. Many will have already seen how utterly irrelevant religion really is, and how puny/non-existent is any direction, help or comfort from G.O.D.s.
Reddit ex/jw is alive with comments from young folks dreading the return to the dismal JW (ab)normal life.
They have nothing to lose by writing a letter claiming their legal, permanent right to freedom far superior to even their freedoms of the past 3 months.
As they anticipate only the resumption of propaganda and manipulation of their lives - they have much to gain with a quick decisive exit right now.
gone for good

Hybridous-
One of the points Ms. Spiess validated in her exoneration goes something like this -
To inflict (or even threaten) punishment upon others for not performing an act which can only be valid if done in accord with their individual consciences' - constitutes ecclesiastic coercion.
It is not a crime to hate, nor is shunning a crime. It is a crime to incite others to hate, it is a criminal act to emotionally harm others, especially youngsters, or to inflict psychological abuse - which can be longer lasting and harder to treat than physical assaults.
A real life example from JWland. A JW grandfather (to MANY grandchildren) has slowly become an alcoholic in his own home, as a way to cope with his JW wifes complaining, bitchy demanding character. She reports him, and then again later. and then again. Theres JC, he is disfellowshipped and his own beloved grandchildren are coerced into shunning an old man who hasn't harmed a single one of them.
Those young people didn't really have a true choice of conscience as they had been conditioned throughout their lives with the systemic coercions of groupthink, cult-loyalty, unity at all costs, and punishment to all who question, disagree or transgress.
No real soil to grow an actual conscience there is there?
LongHairGal

GONE FOR GOOD:
That is a very sick and sad story about that grandfather.
What I wonder is what does the wife gain by airing her dirty linen and turning her husband over to the elders? How does she benefit if she gets him disfellowshipped? Is he really going to stop drinking OR will he drink more.
It’s particularly cruel to have his grandchildren shun him. And, as you said, he hasn’t harmed a single one of them. He’s an old man. So sad. Not just an old man being shunned, but young people deprived of love of a grandparent. Also, a callous forming on their heart so they will be more likely to be cruel to somebody else.
Please let this religion be over so that there are no more victims!

Quit Quietly now more than ever

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