Who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

by Alex Williams 79 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • bennyk

    ALEX claims:

    "The first few months of 1914 the clergy and others poured considerable ridicule upon C. T. Russell and the Watch Tower Society for failing to see anything happening to the Gentile nations as they were well into the year 1914 with nothing happening.

    But all this ridicule stopped when nation after nation and kingdom after kingdom began cascading into what now is called the first world war 1914 as predicted 40 years before it happened by the Zions Watchtower."

    The Watch Tower Society itself demolished that claim in 1930:

    "The Watch Tower, and its companion publications of the Society, for forty years emphasized the fact that 1914 would witness the establishment of God’s kingdom and the complete glorification of the church. During that period of forty years God’s people on earlh were carrying on a witness work, which work was foreshadowed by Elijah and John the Baptist. All of the Lord’s people looked forward to 1914 with joyful expectation. When that time came and passed there was much disappointment, chagrin and mourning, and the Lord’s people were greatly in reproach. They were ridiculed by the clergy and their allies in particular, and pointed to with scorn, because they had said so much about 1914, and what would come to pass, and their ‘prophecies’ had not been fulfllled.

    One wearing sackcloth usually puts it on himself. God’s people on earth, after the reproach that came upon them following 1914, put sackcloth upon themselves as an evidence of mourning. " -- Light, Volume I, p.194.

    Alex, that time came and passed, and the reproach came following 1914, because the Society's prophecies had not been fulfilled.

  • Vanderhoven7

    Oops, typo...that's 1928, not 1828 for the 7th trumpet.

  • punkofnice
    AW - "Prove it! Stop using the bible"
    Long before 1914 the group known then as Millennial Dawners/JWs in the 1800 warned to watch out for a marked year from the bible chronology of 1914.

    This proves nothing. The article is August 1914. WW1 began 28 July 1914.

    So. Long before 1914? I'd be interested to see the prints of that.

    Blimey O'Rielly, mate.

  • johnamos


    quote - Check your interlinear the Greek is EV. The simplest meaning is "at" meaning in relation to. The NWT has certainly injected their doctrine here by using ""during". - end quote

    Yes, not only do they use 'during' at 1 Corinthians 15:23 but also they use 'during' at 1 Corinthians 15:52, but at least in the older NWT they have a footnote on 52 showing that it is 'AT', but in the newer NWT they got rid of the footnote.


    1928! Did you know that they also said the 7th trumpet blew in April 1918? LOL!

    They teach that the 42-months associated with the 6th trumpet/2nd woe (Rev 11:2) occurred in Oct 1914 to April 1918, with that in mind read this doozy:

    [7-15-51 WT- At this eventful time the seventh angel blows his trumpet, that is, after the 1,260 days ended in 1918. Then it is that these wonders can come to pass. “And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven saying: ‘The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king for ever and ever.’(Revelation 11:15)]

  • peacefulpete

    Its a combination of selective memory and coincidence. Every conspiracy theory, and I regard religions as conspiracy theories, has at its base some coincidence that seems to give the theory veracity. Often the coincidence isn't actually even a coincidence, the prediction or the particulars of the events or math are tweaked to enhance the sense of coincidence. In this case the WT made a number of specific predictions about 1910,11,12,13,14,16,18 etc even down to the month in some cases. When WW1 started (a few months early is explained away as the Devil trying to distract humans) some felt that the coincidence was too much to be an accident and got excited but when the predicted end did not occur Russell said that he had not made the predictions. A few short years later the WT revised what was actually predicted and hailed the coincidence as evidence of divine direction. Its classic.

  • Alex Williams
    Alex Williams

    1914 was pointed toward world change

    The Time Is at Hand (1889 ed.)several years before 1914

    the great "time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation," will reach its culmination" The Time Is at Hand (1889 ed.) page 77 - page 78
    "the Day of Vengeance ... will end in October, 1914"

    Thy Kingdom Come (1911 ed.) p.228 3 years before 1914

    "the deliverance of the saints must take place some time before 1914"

    Studies in the Scriptures - The Time is at Hand (1889) 1911 ed. p.99

    we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished near the end of A.D.1914."

    Watch Tower 1911 Jun 15

    "October, 1914, will witness the full end of Babylon"

    The Zions Watchtower knew from bible chronology 1914 would bring a change the Gentile times would end in 1914 so logically they expected the actual end of this present world,they understood Satan the Devil would be ousted in 1914 as the great war would break out in heaven since Christ would become King

    Rev 11 NWT

    And there were loud voices in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord+ and of his Christ,But the nations became wrathful

    Rev 12 NWT
    And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el*+ and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but they did not prevail,* nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon+ was hurled, the original serpent,+ the one called Devil+ and Satan,+ who is misleading the entire inhabited earth;+ he was hurled down to the earth,+ and his angels were hurled down with him.

    On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea,+ because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger

    great sorrow or distress, sadness, unhappiness, heartache, heartbreak, despondency, desolation, despair, dejection, depression, gloom, melancholy,sorrows," "stresses," or "troubles,

    affliction, agony, anguish, distress, excruciation, hurt, misery, pain, rack, strait(s), torment, torture, travail, tribulation

    World war 1 in 1914 brought all these woes to the earth just as Rev 12 predicted

    What happened next after the Devil was ousted from heaven :

    Rev 12 -17 NWT

    So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her offspring,*+ who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness concerning Jesus.+

    Since he couldnt cause any more problems in heaven his target was

    Who were these?

    Zions Watchtower

    Joseph Rutherford
    Warrants were issued for the arrest of Rutherford and seven other Watch Tower directors, who were charged under the 1917 Espionage Act of attempting to cause insubordination, disloyalty, refusal of duty in the armed forces and obstructing the recruitment and enlistment service of the U.S. while it was at war.[65] On June 21 seven of them, including Rutherford, were sentenced to 20 years' imprisonment

    The Watchtower accurately predicted 1914 as the end of the gentile times but that didn't culminate in the anointed going to heaven and the end of this present world

    they didn't understand the passage as the beginning of distress not the end of troubles

    Matt 24 NWT
    8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.

    At the time didn't understand Jesus comparison of his presence and the days of Noah

    Matt 24 NWT
    For just as the days of Noah were,+ so the presence* of the Son of man will be.

    This passage shows his presence lasts for many years from 1914 until the end since the days of Noah were decades before the world wide destruction then his presence would be decades as well.

    This verse eliminates the disciples asking about his coming since his coming would be a one day event where those saved would be ushered to heaven that same day and it wouldnt take decades like the days of Noah ,so coming dont harmonize with the long time period of Noah only presence does.

  • peacefulpete

    Alex...You quote Jesus saying if anyone loves family more than him they are unworthy of him, then apply that to the WT. In your mind you substitute obedience to the WT leadership for love of Jesus.

    Many churches have misused this passage for centuries in the exact way you have used it. Obedience to a church leadership is elided into love for Jesus. Surely you can see the problem with that.

    As to the words "I came to bring not peace but a sword" and that Christians would have 'enemies from their own household'. Yes sadly people have been intolerant of converts to Christianity and have acted shamefully against them. Some Christian converts lost the affections of their family because of it. Now the WT is twisting this verse to mean that JWs should make enemies of their family members who question the WT. IOW They are demanding JWs act as shamefully as intolerant nonChristians have done to them.

  • Giles Gray
    Giles Gray

    Alex Williams:-

    " So World War I was a sign that the birth pains had begun. And nearly all historians agree that World War II was merely a continuation of World I.

    So his presence began in 1914 his Kingdom began in 1914 and all the events depicted in Revelation began 1919 as well as appointing a Slave to fed his sheep"

    Then... following on from the Slave's divine approval... let's examine the delights that the newly 'appointed Slave' fed its adherents/sheep:-

    The Watchtower assured that Armageddon was going to happen before the end of the 20th century... right up until the new millennium, when that prophetic speculation failed to materialise.

    The Watchtower's "CONCLUSIVE PROOF" that 'millions (of people) now living will never die' proved false because those people all died off.

    The 'Generation that will by no means pass away' embarrassingly all passed away.

    Since the end of World War II, mankind entered the most prosperous time in human history and we have continued to live beyond our ancestors' wildest dreams, contrary to the JWs prophetic expectations.

    In fact, it's a verifiable fact that ever since the appointment of the Slave in 1919 (if one was to concede 1914 and 1919) not one prophetic speculation of the Watchtower has amounted to anything.

    Their eschatology has proved to be a complete failure ever since Jesus' alleged approval, which pretty much renders the King of this kingdom rather impotent when it comes to his dealings with his appointed Slave. The Slave had better prophetic success before being appointed than anything they've predicted after they were under the direction of the Master.

    It turns out that these alleged 'birth pangs' were nothing more than a misdiagnosis of severe trapped wind, which unfortunately blew out the light that was supposed to get brighter and brighter.

  • peacefulpete
    Matt 24 NWT
    For just as the days of Noah were,+ so the presence* of the Son of man will be.
    This passage shows his presence lasts for many years from 1914 until the end since the days of Noah were decades before the world wide destruction then his presence would be decades as well.
    This verse eliminates the disciples asking about his coming since his coming would be a one day event where those saved would be ushered to heaven that same day and it wouldnt take decades like the days of Noah ,so coming dont harmonize with the long time period of Noah only presence does.

    The author has Jesus equating the disinterest or preoccupation of people prior to the coming of the flood with the disinterest and preoccupation of people prior to the coming of Jesus. The coming of the flood is equated with the coming of Jesus.

    39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    The WT spin, equating decades of time prior to the flood to a 'presence' is a perfect example of why the word presence is not adequate. It my earlier comment I showed that the word means "coming and being with". The WT has said as much. The friend 'comes and stays' with me. He cannot 'be with' me without first 'coming'.

    The use of 'presence' as the WT is using it here to equate with 'days of Noah' is only possible by dropping the 'coming' part of "coming and being with". See it? If we said that Jesus' 'coming and being with' is equal to the days prior to the flood then in what way does the actual flood 'coming' equate with the 'coming of Jesus'? It gets meaningless quickly.

    This plus the entire surrounding context which declares the 'coming' with an unmistakable, impossible to predict day of judgement.

  • johnamos

    quote - This passage shows his presence lasts for many years - end quote

    Instight Vol 1

    PRESENCE -The Greek word from which “presence” is translated is pa·rou·siʹa, formed from pa·raʹ (alongside) and ou·siʹa (being; derived from ei·miʹ, meaning “be”). Hence, pa·rou·siʹa means, literally, “being alongside,” that is, a “presence.”

    2 Thess 2:1 However, brothers, concerning the presence “being alongside” of our Lord Jesus Christ, namely* our being gathered together to him,

    * (Greek kai)

    Matthew 24: 30 And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.

    1 Corinthians 15:51 Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep in death, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, 52 in the twinkling of an eye, 'at' the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ”

    7-1-98 WT p.21 par.12 - That “last day” coincides with the Thousand Year Reign of Christ. (Revelation 20:6) Imagine the excitement during that “day” when this grand event begins!

    Revelation 20:6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.

    John 6:39 This is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose none out of all those whom he has given me, but that I should resurrect them on the last day. (Compare John 17:12; 18:9)

    5-1-90 WT p.26 par.9 - Martha knew about that hope from her association with Jesus, for she had previously said to him regarding Lazarus: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day. (John 11:24) She knew that the resurrection would be, not on his (Lazarus’) last day, but in the future, “on the last day”—Judgment Day, when the dead would be raised under God’s Kingdom rule.

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