by Alex Williams 79 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
"Instead some of us lost our families and friends"
Jesus warned of this when he clearly said:
49I have come to ignite a fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled,Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but division.…
37Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me;
One had to prove he is worthy of the King
Alex, do you believe/accept as the WTS/GB teaches that:
the 7th trumpet was blown in 1914? (Rev 11:15)
the 42-months of Rev 11:2 were fulfilled in 1914-1918?
the first resurrection began in 1919 and is still on going?
Proverbs 4:18 is a “proverbial” saying, not a prophecy about a tax-free Real-Estate flipping, Judeo-Xian group with a confirmed pedophile database.
DD
But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits,e afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.
Any anointed Christians [144,000] die during Christ’s presence, they are resurrected to heavenly life.
When did this COMING/PRESENCE begin
What were his disciples actually asking at
Matt 24 KJV
Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Obviously they didn't ask what will be the sign of your coming because it doesn't harmonize with his appointing a Slave to feed his people at his return;
Matt 24-45 NIV
Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns
If they actually asked about his coming [which has not occurred as per Churches of Christendom] then no faithful and wise servant/Slave has been appointed since he has not returned therefore his sheep are not spiritually fed and have starved from the lack of spiritual food
Matt 4-4 NWT
“It is written: ‘Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah’s* mouth.’”+
Matt 24-3
Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence*
state or fact of existing, occurring, or being present,a person or thing that exists or is present in a place but is not seen.Presence is not a verb, but, as a noun, it can mean a state of being,
What presence were they asking had to be about his being present in kingdom power since they were concerned about earthly kingship in Israel:
Acts 1
After he had suffered, he showed himself alive to them by many convincing proofs.+ He was seen by them throughout 40 days, and he was speaking about the Kingdom of God.So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?”
In other words are you going to now after you have died and was resurrected going to set up the Kingdom right here on earth over in Jerusalem.
This is in reference to the question they asked in Matt 24 about his Kingdom presence not coming.
Jesus actually pointed forward to the actual date his Kingdom would be established alerting all that his Kingdom presence had taken effect as 1914
Matt 24-7 NWT
"For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom"
This is a Jewish idiom used in rabbinical literature for a world war
This is consistent with Jewish writings of the first century.
One Jewish source known as the Zohar Chadash
states: At that time wars shall be stirred up in the world.
Nation
shall be
against nation and city
against city; much distress shall be renewed against the enemies of the
Israelites.
Another Jewish source known as the Bereshit Rabbah states: If you shall see the kingdoms rising against each other in turn, then give heed and note the footsteps of the Messiah.
So World War I was a sign that the
birth pains had begun. And nearly all historians agree that World War II was merely a continuation of World I.
So his presence began in 1914 his Kingdom began in 1914 and all the events depicted in Revelation began 1919 as well as appointing a Slave to fed his sheep
Proverbs which is from God....
Prove it! Stop using the bible, it's a book of myths and fairy stories which does not condemn slavery, rape, incest and a host of other horrific things. It bans shellfish though. The bible proves nothing other than there are people that slavishly think it holds godly sayings. It doesn't. It's just a load of manuscripts bunged together by some blokes. It is internally inconsistent and cruel. It isn't from god because there isn't one.
Who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?
Defendants?
"Prove it! Stop using the bible"
Long before 1914 the group known then as Millennial Dawners/JWs in the 1800 warned to watch out for a marked year from the bible chronology of 1914.
The first few months of 1914 the clergy and others poured considerable ridicule upon C. T. Russell and the Watch Tower Society for failing to see anything happening to the Gentile nations as they were well into the year 1914 with nothing happening.
But all this ridicule stopped when nation after nation and kingdom after kingdom began cascading into what now is called the first world war 1914 as predicted 40 years before it happened by the Zions Watchtower.
August 30, 1914,a leading New York city newspaper called The World.
"New York World. The New York World was a newspaper published in New York City from 1860 until 1931. The paper played a major role in the history of American newspapers. It was a leading national voice of the Democratic Party"
On August 30, 1914, the arresting headline “End of All Kingdoms in 1914”
blazed across page 4 of the Sunday magazine section of The World, a
leading New York newspaper.
“The terrific war outbreak in Europe has fulfilled an extraordinary prophecy,” stated this feature article. “For a quarter of a century past, through preachers and through press, the ‘International Bible Students [Jehovah’s Witnesses],’ best known as ‘Millennial Dawners,’ have been proclaiming to the world that the Day of Wrath prophesied in the Bible would dawn in 1914. ‘Look out for 1914!’ has been the cry of the hundreds of traveling evangelists who, representing this strange creed, have gone up and down the country enunciating the doctrine that ‘the Kingdom of God is at hand.’”
The fact remains that the JWS religion was started by sinning apostate charlatans such as C T Russell, his false expressive doctrines set the foundation for a good portion of the doctrines held to by the JWS up until now.
JWS have always been witnesses and loyal servants of the Watchtower Corporation and its uniquely designed Gospel , not loyal steadfast witnesses of Jehovah.
I will try again...
Alex, do you believe/accept as the WTS/GB teaches that:
the 7th trumpet was blown in 1914? (Rev 11:15)
the 42-months of Rev 11:2 were fulfilled in 1914-1918?
the first resurrection began in 1919 and is still on going?
Hi JA
I thought the first resurrection began in the spring of 1918 and the 7th trumpet sounded in 1828 in Detriot, Michigan.
Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand p. 173.
Just shows you the WTS can make the Bible say anything it chooses.
Check your interlinear the Greek is EV. The simplest meaning is "at" meaning in relation to. The NWT has certainly injected their doctrine here by using ""during". My point is not to argue the multiple ways in English the word theoretically could be translated but that the choice of word here has colored the verse to be consistant with the WT interpretation of the word Parousia so using this word choice as a proof for the other word choice is circular.But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits,e afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.
As to the word parousia. The clear meaning is "coming to be with", like my friend is coming over. Yes my friend is coming and will then 'be present' because of his having come but he cannot be present without coming. The choice to use "presence" rather than "coming" again injects a shift in meaning into the text not evident or necessary. It creates a confusion for the entire passage to follow..
In those passages The coming is declared to be unmistakable and seen by all like lightning in the sky and every eye would see. . Specifically vs 26 says that he would not come secretly and only reveal himself to a select few. This alone pretty much negates the "invisible presence" doctrine that claims only a chosen few would properly see his "presence".
Further, Jesus' coming is parallel to the flood coming in verse 39 To add to that the speaker specifically says no one would know when Jesus was to come again, it could not be deduced or predicted vs 36.but yet the Wt and others have claimed to be able to do that. The analogy of a thief 'coming' is paralleled to Jesus coming, that is unexpected and unpredictable vss 42-44, this also negates a doctrine of having secretly calculated the date of the coming.
The selective cut and splicing of this chapter by the WT has some of it referring to 1914 half to Armageddon shifting from one to the other but nothing in the chapter suggests that extremely confusing interpretation.
Matt 24:2,3 The very question put in the mouth of the disciples in context was:
Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
The question is asking for a "sign" for "these things to occur". they did not ask for 3 signs for three distinct events. Any uncolored reading of the passage shows the writer anticipated the destruction of the temple to culminate in the end of the age by means of Jesus's coming back with angels to destroy all the disciples' enemies. As a sum up the answer the writer has Jesus say:
33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
The verse does not say when you see these things he is already present, but no he is about to come. It is clear without the colored lenses what was meant.
Clearly the writer also fully anticipated this in his lifetime, as he swore that his contemporaries would live to see it happen.
As a last thought...It would have been a rather odd question to ask to someone seated in front of them to ask give us a sign so we know when you are present. That is unless we wish to insist the disciples had a full JW understanding of the invisible presence doctrine. Think about it calmly.
