by cofty 75 Replies latest social current
A thought .....
What if George Floyd acted the way he did in resisting arrest and the ensuing struggle with police out of knowing that there were bystanders watching the incident basically supporting him on his side ???
Police brutality , police brutality by white police officers .....LOOK !
See these guys are white racists picking on a colored person. !
What exactly and specifically is broken?
Are you looking for specific examples like Prime Minister Morrison demanding to know why Australian journalists were assaulted by DC riot police on live camera or a more general explanation like you would get in a civics class?
Please don't misunderstand Simon. I'm not trying to be flippant here. I don't think you grew up in the U.S. (?) and therefore didn't have to sit through hours and hours and hours of this stuff in school.
GF's past or present, is not the issue. The issue is Police abuse of force without accountability, violation of their oath to protect the constitution, police policy that gives immunity to police officers, the abuse of power of the state. That's the real issue. GF's Murder was just the spark... but the combustible has been piling up for a while.
If they had not touched GF, he would be dead very soon anyway based on his lifestyle.
And what's the biggest issue? is that many don't see it or choose to excuse it or just look the other way.
CJ - It's not a binary conversation.
I agree with you that racism must be challenged. I also think that GF was a horrible human being who was being universally lionised in the media. I admired Cadance Owen's courage in bringing some balance.
Are you looking for specific examples ... or a more general explanation like you would get in a civics class?
The point is, if you look at the stats (number of deaths caused by police, across races) then there is no disparity. If anything, the police kill more white people than you would expect, but it's not statistically significant.
While everyone would love the tally to be zero, that simply isn't going to happen with a system dealing with chaotic situations, unstable people and in a country where guns are so prevalent and has to be weighed against the number of police killed which is massively higher and also the number of lives they are saving in the process of their work.
The question of "what is the problem" is where the line should be. But bear in mind, if you think it should be 0% perpetrators and 100% police victims, that isn't realistic and would create other issues.
That the police only shot dead 9 unarmed black people last year (half the number of whites) is honestly astounding given the number and type of incidents they deal with. I know this case isn't a shooting death, but we're not dealing with the numbers that people seem to imagine and the numbers have been going down.
Any realistic evaluation of system should be based on "acceptable numbers" because perfection simply isn't going to happen. So what should those numbers be? Both public and police, because it feels like they are opposite ends of a see-saw to some extent and many of those cops that are killed are black men too (not that it should matter, but apparently race is all that matters now)
And that's is exactly the point. That even the most criminal of criminals deserves a fair trial and due process, regardless of his crimes and color.
I believe the judiciary system is also flawed and needs urgent re structuring but is the best we can do right now.
Simon,
While everyone would love the tally to be zero, that simply isn't going to happen....
I'm not naive enough to demand perfection, but as a U.S. citizen, I am concerned about the militarization of the police because it ultimately puts all of our civil liberties at risk.
The separation between civil and military authority is implicit in our constitution; it was one of, if not the single biggest driving force behind the 2nd amendment; (Although that idea is a little archaic now...) and it was formally codified into law via the Posse Comitatus act of the late 19th century.
-And there are good reasons for this. If you've seen the Netflix series on Waco, then you've seen what happens when a civilian standoff is treated as a military situation. --Everybody dies.
It's not the fault of any one president or administration, but over the last 30 years of so this barrier has been gradually circumvented. The police have not only been equipped with the weapons, vehicles and gear of soldiers, there has been a corresponding change in attitude whereby police conceive of themselves as “at war” with communities rather than as public servants concerned with keeping their communities safe.
On the battlefield perhaps it's okay to cut loose with a fully automatic rifle when a captive enemy startles you with a sneeze or moves his hands in the wrong way, but that is not okay with the citizens of your own community who are not your enemies. In war maybe it's okay to toss a flash bang into a playpen where a toddler is sleeping. Personally, I don't think it's ever okay, but war, by its very nature is different and bad things happen.
This is what's broken. I can't think of any other country in the free world where police drive through affluent neighborhoods with military style rifles. (This is not an ordinary AR. It is a select fire variant produced specifically for the police.)
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Hell, I can't think of any other country in the free world where the police routinely carry rifles of any sort and certainly not through neighborhoods with very little crime. Personally, I'm much more in fear of the guy on the motorcycle here than I am of a criminal and it shouldn't be that way.
There are several other threads going right now where graphic and bloody examples of what I'm talking about have been posted, (i.e. The police treating suspects as enemy combatants rather than as citizens of their own community.) so hopefully the point has been made.
The situation with George Floyd is tragic and maybe justice will be done, but the police response in the wake of his death has been even more telling. (If that's possible)
TD:
I understand your view of what you see as overly armed police even in so-called affluent areas.
In the years following 9/11 when I saw overly armed police and military in train stations, I knew they weren’t there to protect me!.. What you want (and what everybody would like) are police who don’t see the population as their enemies. But, unfortunately, it isn’t like that.
I remembered back during hurricane Katrina down in Louisiana...I particularly remember when a helicopter wanted to land and help..well some mindless idiots started shooting at it!!! Naturally, the helicopter took off and nobody returned for a few days. Meanwhile, there was outcry by the black community ‘that nobody cared’ and ‘Bush hates black people’, etc. Well, what would have happened if somebody succeeded in killing the helicopter pilots and emergency personnel (on TV no less)??? Just HOW would this have looked to the world?
I’m sure they retreated because they had to consider what the HELL they were dealing with on the ground!..They did return a few days later...The point is that the population is not ‘friendly’. It is unpredictable. Now, with other elements in the country and disgruntled people of every sort - that you have the police force you are seeing.
Mistakes will always me made. Cops are humans and make mistakes. The police started in Europe out as the king's bully boys who were simply meant to beat up trouble makers. It was less bloody than the the soldiers swords and bayonets. Maybe next step in the evolution of the policeman is get him better educated, paid better, cutting edge weapons and dismiss those that have mental issues. But we also have an increasinly rude and undisciplined Western / European population. I remember reading as kid about how a crowd had thrown rocks at the police and thinking why did they not respond with deadly fire at such an totally unacceptable action? Things fall apart when we have no law and order.
The militarization of the police is definitely an issue, but then they are sometimes called on to deal with terrorism and other mass violence incidents and they should have appropriate tools to protect themselves and counter those threats.
The biggest issue is having big government with too much power. Smaller, locally accountable groups are better than large faceless federal agencies. It was the latter that caused Waco, not the local sheriffs dept.
But the demos want big government, always bigger, always demanding that we feed it with ever more taxes, and they'll them decide who gets medical treatment, food, protection, education and all manner of other things. We see now they will demand vocal agreement or people will be labelled and put on lists as "non conformist".
None of this should be a surprise. It's socialism / communism every time it's been tried and everywhere it's being tried.
The US will have a clear choice to make later this year. Law and order, wealth and prosperity or living to serve the thugs that seize power. A lot of the people complaining about "injustice" now have no idea what real injustice might be hiding for them behind the curtain.
