Meet George Floyd (page 4)

Quetzal

@simon,

What about what I said about

Should there be an independent open investigation after every death involving the police and should the idea of "Qualified Immunity" be removed from the police?
Will that ease the perception of police brutality?

cofty

In the UK every police shooting results automatically in a full, open and transparent investigation by the Independant office for police conduct (IOPC).

The officer will have legal representation and be required to show that his/her actions were justified.

frozen2018

I like to think someone in the family had the foresight to Trade Mark the name George Floyd and everything else associated with the name George Floyd.

Simon

Should there be an independent open investigation after every death involving the police and should the idea of "Qualified Immunity" be removed from the police?

There should be an investigation after every death-in-custody occurs as standard practice. This is the case in the UK and Canada. As far as I can tell, it seems like it happens in the US but maybe it doesn't have an automatic trigger to make it happen (?)

There's nothing inherently wrong with Qualified Immunity. When they are working as a public servant they represent the municipality or federal government and it would be unfair to hold and individual to account for simply doing what they have been commanded to do. In the same way that if an employee of a company does something to you, it's as though the company did it.

The issue is whether what they did qualifies as part of their duty or not. Ultimately, they have a big union with deep pockets and what those union members pay for is legal representation to defend them, so they are defended well (I imagine). There's no simple way of not allowing people to have the best defence they can in any legal situation.

The problem with this case is everyone is reacting as thought there is a problem, but that has not been proven yet because no one has allowed the system to work. It looks bad, but we now know more and it could be that the guy died from the drugs and hardened arteries. We haven't seen all the evidence but people are interfering and upping charges because of politics, which causes resentment when they inevitably don't get the conviction they were promised. Same as happened with Baltimore.

Will that ease the perception of police brutality?

I doubt it, because the stats already don't support the claims and that doesn't change people's perception. People had perceptions after Mike Brown and Trayvon Martin, completely without basis in reality. Facts don't seem to matter.

None of the solutions I've seen are viable and some are downright laughable. Like "abolishing the police", WTF would happen with that?! Imagine that happening - it would be like the purge which would mean people would form their own community patrols. And then when one of those patrols shot some black guy committing crime? What's that? Arrest them? Who would arrest them - you got rid of all the police!

To fix something that is broken you first have to identify what is broken and all we keep hearing is "we need to fix things".

What exactly and specifically is broken?

Finkelstein

Ironically knowing now what kind of person George Floyd was most people would never want to meet him .

Shit all this guy had to do was just go down to the police station and admit he was passing counterfeit bills , they might have let him go that night with a date to return to court.

the girl next door

Biden says 10-15% of American's "are just not good people". I suspect those are Hillary's deplorables.

I wonder if law enforcement has an internal deplorable chart and is working their way down the list?

redvip2000

she lost me when she started to throw around statistics comparing Black/White deaths..If your child was shot by someone, the last thing you want to hear is, "Madam, do you know that what happened to your child has 1 in a million chance of happening in your street". In the eyes of a grieving mother, the stats are irrelevant.

Sure, but this comparison is essential to understand if the narrative is valid. If the narrative is that the police is actively only targeting blacks, then how would you validate that if not by numbers? Numbers don't lie even if each personal loss is a tragedy.

redvip2000

I'm sure the police have their cruiser and body cam footage which for obvious reasons hasn't been released (doesn't fit the narrative the mayor of Minneapolis and their Antifa-supporter AG wants to create)

It really is baffling how the body cam footage has not been released. There is no downside to releasing it if the goal is to show what really happened. If the body cam footage showed that the cops threw him down for no reason, then not much changes since the protesters already assume that.
If it shows he resisted then at least it gives a bit of credibility as to the reason why he was on the ground.

Quetzal

@simon

When they are working as a public servant they represent the municipality or federal government and it would be unfair to hold and individual to account for simply doing what they have been commanded to do

Good point, you highlight a problem with the system if police brutality is linked to "doing what they have been commanded to do"

Your question : What exactly and specifically is broken?

As far as I can tell, it seems like it happens in the US but maybe it doesn't have an automatic trigger to make it happen (?)

You have part of the solution, make it automatic/open and by and independent body.

To fix something that is broken you first have to identify what is broken and all we keep hearing is "we need to fix things".

I thought what is broken has already been identified from the get go, Police brutality.

@simon You also identified another thing that is broken

Ultimately, they have a big union with deep pockets and what those union members pay for is legal representation to defend them, so they are defended well (I imagine)

Big Union with deep pockets should be allowed to provide legal defense to their members but open investigation should be done by an independent body.

What else is broken?

Body camera on police should be on at all times when interacting with the public and if case if death, it should be turned over to an independent body for full open investigation.

It is not that difficult to identify what is broken?

A 75 year old man was brutalized in Buffalo. That is another example of what is broken.

Quetzal

@redvip2000

If the narrative is that the police is actively only targeting blacks, then how would you validate that if not by numbers?

"police ACTIVELY ONLY targeting blacks" is not the narrative. The stats should not be used as a dick measuring contest.

Another example, If you were to lose 100k dollars right now and someone throws some stats at you like,

"@redvip2000, stop bitching about losing 100 thousand dollars, Bill Gates lost 1 Million dollars and he is not crying about it."

Will it make you feel better knowing that there is someone out there like Bill Gates who has lost more money than you?

Meet George Floyd

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