Nephew’s JW Fiancée Begins Conversion to Judaism Due to Passover Date

by Rabbi Midge 60 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Slow Burn
    Slow Burn

    I feel fascinated....

  • _Morpheus
    It's not religion like Christianity, and Jehovah's Witnesses, and Mormonism. It's something we are born into.

    Annnnd your telling us how people can join.... but you have to be born into it..... but your nephews gf or whatever she is maybe one day might be invited to join... but you have to be born into it.... seeing the contradiction yet? Ive pointed it out now three times.

    You can leave in a huff if you want, of course, thats your choice, but im sure some will want to continue to engage with you.

  • Diogenesister
    We have a saying in Reconstructing Judaism: "Our religious tradition has a vote on the way we act today, but not a veto."

    I like this very much :-)

  • MeanMrMustard
    We have a saying in Reconstructing Judaism: "Our religious tradition has a vote on the way we act today, but not a veto."
    There are no central beliefs to Judaism that anyone has to adhere to, and people can reject this or that teaching and remain a Jew.

    So I can screw three women, one of which is my sister, in front of a golden calf idol, on a Sabbath, while eating bacon... after which I will kill all three women?

    This is OK for a Jew?

  • silentbuddha
    From frying pan into the fire
  • Pete Zahut
    Pete Zahut

    This is a very interesting post and I'm so glad you've taken the time to lay out your views so well. Thank you !

    It seems to me that main point of the Memorial is about the sacrifice Jesus made. The fact that it is still being remembered all of these centuries later is amazing in itself. I'm guessing that whether or not it is celebrated at the exact same moment each year, isn't all that important to Jesus. (if he actually exists)

    The big issue to me is that the Jehovah's Witnesses teachings can be so off and so wrong yet I went along with them because as a kid, I somehow bought into the concept that the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses were being directly led by God himself (as if such a thing could was even provable).

    As your Nephews fiance' found out, it is quite devastating and panic inducing when you discover that the belief system you've based your identity as a person upon, is flawed and is only one factoid away from crumbling like a house of cards. I'm guessing she like many of us, knew on some level that there was something that didn't add up about our beliefs. This could partially explain why she was able to adjust so quickly.

  • dubstepped

    Rabbi Midge - Why do you feel like you are being proselytized?

    Because one of the definitions is "to advocate or promote a belief or course of action". It wasn't enough to tell us about this person and what went on, but you continued to give a presentation on the Reconstructing Judaism movement that seemed unnecessary and like an advertisement. You asked why I feel that way, and there you have it.

    I also don't feel great about the young lady jumping from one thing to another based on one date being wrong. It seems very emotional and like a sweeping and unstable step to have uprooted her entire life and threatened her parents (which seems no better than them threatening her with shunning) if they know what's good for them. The whole thing just seems not very well thought out and impulsive, not typically the hallmark of someone about to make a great decision for their life. I find the Jewish culture interesting. My grandfather was a Russian Jew. My wife and I work for people that are Jewish and have discussions at times. I just find this thread, at least the original post, to be a mixture of interesting and somewhat disturbing. Those are my feelings. You don't have to agree.

    I do appreciate learning about some of the Jewish teachings or culture that you've shared. I miss David? (name escapes me) that posted her for quite some time. He shared a lot of very interesting things regarding scripture, added Jewish views on things, and gave perspectives that were unique from the way we were taught. You're doing some of that too, which is interesting.

  • Rabbi Midge
    Rabbi Midge


    I've decided to answer one more question, yours.

    The young woman did not make an emotional jump on merely one issue, the date of Passover, but awoke to the fact that what she was being taught about Jews by her religion was wrong.

    She has been in a relationship with my nephew for some time and the issue about religion has been a hot issue as I posted before several months ago on this site (if you read that thread). She has been trying to convert my nephew to be a Witness but he hasn't been able to be convinced. In the meantime he has been talking to her about Judaism and raising any future kids as Jews. This has not been instantaneous therefore as you suggest. They are in a relationship and have been preparing for marriage, and this has been part of an ongoing process.

    What I added in the original post about Reconstructing Judaism is about how far she has been traveling on her journeying and what she is facing. Remember, I got the bolded parts from her and so these statements involve what she is presently learning and coming to terms with on her own, in her own way.

    They are not an advertisement as they are not concepts universally held by all Reconstructionist Jews, so they cannot be considered an attempt to proselytize. I know you feel that way, but those statements would have to encompass the official views of all members in the movement, and again they don't --only hers. Even mine differ somewhat on several points.

    She did not do this as quickly as you are imagining, nor did she threaten anyone when they said they would shun her. She bravely stood up for herself and no one in her family has shunned her and no excommunication has occurred. You were not there, but have passed judgment on this situation with an interpretation as if you were and as if things happened far differently.

    If you are really against shunning as you state, shouldn't you applaud someone who is bravely standing up against it? She is fighting to keep it from happening at all. It may not happen that way, but would you rather her just take it?

    And she is making this decision to investigate Judaism and possibly join because she is marrying a Jew. She wants to be part of him, his family and his culture. The date was just the wake up point for her.

    And now, for those others who have been most unkind:

    I have shut off my email connection with this site. I cannot read your further replies to me, nor will I. I am not coming back to post ever again or read any further replies because you people are not tolerant and some are just having sport with my words. You judge all religion by your limited experience with the Jehovah's Witnesses, and so Jews get the same treatment too.

    I am sure ego will keep some of you answering back to me in further replies, but I won't be reading. That will show how badly and ridiculously ego has overtaken some of you. Who are you replying to? Not me. I am leaving, not in a huff, but because apparently some Jehovah's Witnesses are just as hard to deal with in and outside their religion. And the world doesn't like Jehovah's Witnesses, whether in or out of the Watchtower.

  • days of future passed
    days of future passed

    This information is rather confusing. I know Rabbi M is gone but maybe someone else can answer. Is she saying that being a Jew is like being Irish? In the sense that you are born to Irish parents that have a culture and traditions - but don't necessarily have anything to do with religion? I guess when you think of a Jewish person, you automatically associate it with the Jewish religion. There are of course varying degrees of that religion. Some rather strict.

    And if you compare it to the Catholics, Mormons and even some JW's, some drift along with most of the religious ideas but not all of them. My grandma was a Jack Mormon.

    I guess you could view Rabbi M's posting as sort of "Hey, another JW escaped from JW land, it can be done!" But it could also be for a variety of other reasons. Just talking to myself now.

  • Listener

    I'm sorry to see Rabbi Madge go but it seems that some of us have upset her.

    She wrote this in her first post

    I gather from my brother’s son’s girlfriend (we’ll call her “Shirley” here, but that’s not her real name--definitely not Jewish, of course, but nevertheless “Shirley” to protect her real Jehovah’s Witness identity) that the Witnesses are very much into this “the earliest manuscripts are the most dependable texts” argument because Shirley squeezes this comment into every conceivable conversation you can think about, from moments when we’re out buying lipstick together and trying to find the just the right color, to my trying to share the family secret to making the perfect Jewish brisket--the kind that melts in your mouth and my nephew just loves his auntie Midge over. (I don’t know how Shirley does it, either. But she squeezed that subject into both activities. She really did. It’s weird.)

    I would love to have seen how Shirley was able to squeeze into every conversation, her views on early Bible manuscripts, even when discussing lipstick shades whilst standing in a store. This was also occurring whilst Rabbi Madge was divulging a secret Jewish family recipe.

    Anyway, her writing is colourful but she should not have been surprised if some of us were not accepting her comments blindly.

    Now that Shirley has much more time on her hands, Rabbi Madge might have a few more secret recipes to teach her and also plenty of other ideas and customs to aid in converting her.

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