Thanks for clarifying TD
Nephew’s JW Fiancée Begins Conversion to Judaism Due to Passover Date
by Rabbi Midge 60 Replies latest jw experiences
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Rabbi Midge
Perhaps you dont see the contradiction, but i think im seeing it as listener did. Shes a young girl searching for something, be it jwism or Judaism. I hope shes happy, but dont be fooled into thinking this some deeply thought out logical choice.
Morpheus:
If you don't mind me asking, what is this "logical choice" you are referring to? Surely you are aware that it takes up to three or more years for someone to convert to Judaism.
All I said is she has merely started the process, meaning she has just begun to inquire. She is doing this because she wants to get married and wants to have children and raise them in a society where they will have freedom of religion or the freedom to reject it. She has discussed even being atheist, which I have assured her she can be even if she becomes Jewish.
The only choice, again, she has made is to investigate what Judaism is about. Whether she formally is accepted as a convert and becomes a Jew won't be decided for a very, very long time from now. It is up to her if she wants to be part of our culture. She doesn't have to be. She has decided to no longer be a part of the Witnesses, and has formally declared that.
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Rabbi Midge
I don't know how much time you have spent with this young lady but have you considered that you may have bombarded her with you Jewish ideas?
Listener:
No, I haven't. I explained, Jews don't proselytize.
But why not answer my first question as I previously asked you to?
Can you explain how your words apply to Judaism and these concepts I have expressed here?
...referring to my post wherein I wrote this sentence. Let's stay on the subject and show how well you can argue something proficiently.
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Rabbi Midge
Yes, thank you TD for your research.
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AbusedandPissed
JWs count the days from the observable new moon not from the astronomical new moon that modern Passover is based off.
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TD
JWs count the days from the observable new moon not from the astronomical new moon that modern Passover is based off.
JW's celebrate their Memorial after sundown on the day of what is by their own reckoning the 13th, sometimes just a few minutes after what is by their own reckoning, the 14th has technically started.
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Rabbi Midge
JWs count the days from the observable new moon not from the astronomical new moon that modern Passover is based off.
AbusedandPissed:
I have heard this fable before. There is no such thing as a "modern" way of observing Passover.
The Jews have never, ever had a set calendar.
First, the Jews just watched the moon and the high priest in Jerusalem decided when the New Moon could be seen and thus declared that the New Month began. A runner would then be sent off to tell others the news that the official beginning of a month had begun.
But this didn't always work, and sometimes political intrigue got in the way and this kept the Jews from keeping good historical dating records during the first Temple period for a time. So they started a method using torch lighting. Once the high priest decided the New Moon could be seen, a light was lit and torches were set aflame on high points throughout the land.
But again this was untrustworthy. Political enemies would sometimes light competing torches and the system never worked. When the the First Temple fell, the Jews eventually lost count of the days and there is no way to know exactly when according to Jewish accounts certain things happened. We must rely on secular history and astronomical calendars from this point onward to set things straight.
After the exile, the Jews tried it again, but other enemies, especially the Greeks disturbed the Jewish time counting. They were never able to keep an accurate count of time on their own until the Hasmoneans began to rule and eventually the Sanhedrin took over the job. From that point on the Jewish high court decided when the month officially began.
But that didn't last long either. That ended when the Second Temple fell in 70 C.E. So the Jewish calendar never ran continuously on its own and was never something that ran all the time by an observable new moon.
It was only after the fall of the Second Temple that the Jews developed a lunar calendar based on the solar calendar. This is the only one that has been permanent in the history of the Jews. The idea that there was ever an ongoing ancient one is a fabrication made by Fundamentalist Christianity. Passover has never been on any certain "ancient date" either as the Exodus account is mostly dramatized legend.
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dubstepped
For all the talk about Jews not proselytizing I can't help but feel like this thread is an effort to do just that. It feels very preachy to me. Maybe it's just me though. I do find Judaism quite interesting.
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Rabbi Midge
His fiancee, I believe, has never really thought for herself. This is common amongst JWs. The poor thing... she must be devastated.
Whynot:
On the contrary, of all the people in her family, she is the most outspoken, deep thinker, and independent of the bunch. As I mentioned, she seems to run the family, and she is the youngest. What she says, goes.
"The elders will throw you out if you this!" the wife of one of her brothers said to her about her studying.
"I'm not afraid of that!" she replied.
But I do admit she was devastated for that moment--and I do emphasize the word "moment" that she learned about the date. It was a great shock.
And then she shook it off and went forward.
She is now moving forward and not sad at all. "If I have to make your family my family and replace all of you for them, I will," she has said. And she has plenty of us now to do that very thing. I do believe the elders of her congregation have tried to meet with her but she has told them she will only do that if they meet her on the grounds of the synagogue with two rabbis and several members of the Jewish community present and will only receive further calls from them over speaker with other temple congregants listening in and recording everything. They have left alone ever since.
Her family still talks to her. She still visits them. "They bring up religion, I start talking to them in the little Hebrew I know and they shut up."
So you judge for yourself on what kind of devastation that is or how little she can think for herself. But I don't think she is the type of person you think she is.
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_Morpheus
If you don't mind me asking, what is this "logical choice" you are referring to? Surely you are aware that it takes up to three or more years for someone to convert to Judaism
You realize it takes at least two years to become a jw, right? Or do you not care anymore than i do as to how long it takes to convert to judaism..? And dont call me surely.
All I said is she has merely started the process, meaning she has just begun to inquire. She is doing this because she wants to get married and wants to have children and raise them in a society...
Yep. Thats why people become jw’s too.
Also also, for someone who makes a huge deal out of jews not seek converts you seem to be advertising pretty heavily.
The only choice, again, she has made is to investigate what Judaism is about.
yep. Thats how being a jw starts as well.
Whether she formally is accepted as a convert and becomes a Jew won't be decided for a very, very long time from now. It is up to her if she wants to be part of our culture.
Sigh... again, do you not see the contradiction..? Or are you to busy advertising to think about what your saying?
In the end, slow clap for the little girl leaving one cult and trying to belong another. Its all well and good and the jewish cult isnt quiet as evil, at least not in its moderate practice.
i also agree with the nominal topic, that jws get the date of the memorial wrong. Im not sure what your recruiting pitch has to do with that but perhaps you figure one jw girl bought it with an explanation of the flawed date of the memorial perhaps others will too.... i dont look down on your efforts, rabbi. Some people may well benefit from the community and structure that your sect of the jewish cult provides.