Index of Evidence for Evolution Threads

by cofty 120 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Slidin Fast
    Slidin Fast

    So, I've just come across the re-opening of this thread so I'm late to this part of the party. I am disappointed about th way the thread has been hi-jacked. I think that the original list of well-reasoned evidence assembled by Cofty is invaluable and should be resurrected regularly.

    EP has ranted and expressed her beliefs and seems to consider repeated repetition and adamant statement of said beliefs as evidence. The nearest thing to evidence she quotes are accusations of dishonesty and corruption amongst the scientific community, I am afraid that none of this is evidence and even if true it doesn't undermine the mountain of undisputed research and information out there.

    Sorry EP, in my opinion if you want to convince anybody start your own thread and give us something substantial not just a lot of ranting and flim-flam.

    If you really did a scientific course, try to remember how to write a decent argument.

    Cofty, thanks again for the research and clear explanations in this thread.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Thanks.

    Just for the record I'm going to answer the question EP was afraid of.

    Obviously a teacher would find it difficult to prove cheating by comparing essays if the students simply claim that their identical answers are just a result of using the same sources.

    In a similar way creationists claim that the amazing correlation between animal genomes are simply a result of having the the same creative source.

    Our professor has a simple technique available to confirm her suspicions. By carefully comparing the errors in each essay plagiarism can be proven beyond all doubt. For example if all the students write that the first world war began in 1975 it is inconceivable that they did not cheat - there are countless ways to be wrong!

    In the same way it is by examining the tiny quirks in genomes that we can prove common ancestry. For example very occasionally a virus will get itself copies into a sex cell of its host and be copied into future generations. The exact place where this viral DNA ends up is almost - but not totally - arbitrary. When we find the same viral DNA in precisely the same place in species, and when we can repeat that for multiple endogenous retro viruses, we have proof that those species share a common ancestor.

    This is very similar to the proof that is used in courts every day to prove paternity and convict rapists.

    This is the difference between science and ideology. This is why ideologues like EP run away from actual debates.

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    @SlidinFast, I didn't "hijack" the thread. Cofty told me to come here after we were talking on the other thread, so I complied with his wishes...

    And Cofty, after I answered your question about the teacher thing, you weren't satisfied with the way I answered it and you still didn't proceed with your point until just now. I didn't run away.

    Here's the thing: if two JWs come to your door and try to explain their 1914 belief and you say "no, I know it's not true" but they say "here, read this magazine it explains it" and you say "no, I know that magazine doesn't tell the truth" and they say "here, watch this video then" and you say "no, I know that video doesn't tell the truth" and they say "here, read this book" and you say "no, I know that book doesn't have the truth" ...how long will it take for the two JWs to get the point?

    All the magazines, the videos, and the books that the JWs want to offer you are from the same publishers, from the WTBT$. Once you are out of the WTBT$ and your eyes are opened to the lies the WTBT$ tells, you can see through the false teachings and it doesn't matter what the JW wants to offer you from the WTBT$ publishers about 1914 - you recognize that anything about that teaching is false.

    It's the same with what you're doing. You want me to read another magazine article by evolutionary biologists? I already know the "publishers". I'm not interested. I already know that teaching is false. You can offer me the video, the book, the online article, whatever, I already know it's false.

    I didn't run away. There is just no point in talking to JWs who don't want to see that their 1914 is make believe, and it's the same with evolutionary theorists. They already think they know everything, and they will make up stories all day long to support their views.

    Your illustration doesn't prove anything, Cofty. It's just a story, like the overlapping generations. That's all evolutionary theory is. Another version of overcrapping generations with "science" vocabulary instead of "theocratic" vocabulary.

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard

    @cofty: Also, remember, you are a racist. There's that too - bigot.

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt
    "Also, remember, you are a racist. There's that too - bigot."


    You are the one saying it. It's not my theory - it's yours.




    https://boneclones.com/product/set-of-9-fossil-hominid-skulls-BH-KRO-1


    https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/719793/view/1870-haeckel-racist-human-illustration


    Evolutionary theory is a lie. Evolutionary theory is racist. Research the roots. It's founded on falsehood.


    I don't believe in racism. Jehovah created Adam. The Human Genome Project shows we all descend from one common ancestor. Variation within a species explains the differences in frame. A common Creator explains the similarities in use of pattern between species. The scientific evidence for creation is solid. Evolution is a lie, and a nasty one at that.

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    Phizzy said: "Oh dear, our friend EP as not read "Origin" or he would realise "Races" is used in the biological sense.

    "Let's just stick to discussing facts please." Indeed."


    @Phizzy, I never mentioned the word "races" when talking about chapter 8 of Darwin's book. I mentioned genetics. I said Darwin was racist not because of using the word "races" but because of the overall theme of the book/theory.


    EasyPrompt said: "Cofty, all of chapter 8 of Darwin's "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life" is about genetics."


    But as regards that chapter and racism, here is an excerpt:


    From Darwin's "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life"




    https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/darwin/works/origins/ch08.htm


    "SLAVE-MAKING INSTINCT.

    This remarkable instinct was first discovered in the Formica (Polyerges) rufescens by Pierre Huber, a better observer even than his celebrated father. This ant is absolutely dependent on its slaves; without their aid, the species would certainly become extinct in a single year. The males and fertile females do no work of any kind, and the workers or sterile females, though most energetic and courageous in capturing slaves, do no other work. They are incapable of making their own nests, or of feeding their own larvae. When the old nest is found inconvenient, and they have to migrate, it is the slaves which determine the migration, and actually carry their masters in their jaws. So utterly helpless are the masters, that when Huber shut up thirty of them without a slave, but with plenty of the food which they like best, and with their larvae and pupae to stimulate them to work, they did nothing; they could not even feed themselves, and many perished of hunger. Huber then introduced a single slave (F. fusca), and she instantly set to work, fed and saved the survivors; made some cells and tended the larvae, and put all to rights. What can be more extraordinary than these well-ascertained facts? If we had not known of any other slave-making ant, it would have been hopeless to speculate how so wonderful an instinct could have been perfected.

    Another species, Formica sanguinea, was likewise first discovered by P. Huber to be a slave-making ant. This species is found in the southern parts of England, and its habits have been attended to by Mr. F. Smith, of the British Museum, to whom I am much indebted for information on this and other subjects. Although fully trusting to the statements of Huber and Mr. Smith, I tried to approach the subject in a sceptical frame of mind, as any one may well be excused for doubting the existence of so extraordinary an instinct as that of making slaves. Hence, I will give the observations which I made in some little detail. I opened fourteen nests of F. sanguinea, and found a few slaves in all. Males and fertile females of the slave-species (F. fusca) are found only in their own proper communities, and have never been observed in the nests of F. sanguinea. The slaves are black..."


    Cofty said: "Darwin had been largely correct"


    MeanMrMustard said: "@cofty: Also, remember, you are a racist."


    I don't believe in biological evolution, but I do believe in figurative evolution of the heart. Racists/evolutionists can wake up. People can change. "All things are possible with God"🥰

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard

    To recap: If you believe in evolution:

    1) You are in a cult.

    2) You are racist.

    3) You have more in common with some of the worst dictators in the world than you do with anything else

    4) The teachings are, in effect, no different than the overlapping generation doctrine.

    5) But EP really means it from a place of love.

  • MeanMrMustard
    MeanMrMustard
    People can change. "All things are possible with God"🥰

    Except a married bachelor.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Oh dear EP has been vomiting all over my thread again

    Totally ignored the evidence of course.Troll

  • EasyPrompt
    EasyPrompt

    MeanMrMustard said: "To recap: If you believe in evolution:

    1) You are in a cult.

    2) You are racist.

    3) You have more in common with some of the worst dictators in the world than you do with anything else

    4) The teachings are, in effect, no different than the overlapping generation doctrine.

    5) But EP really means it from a place of love.


    People can change. "All things are possible with God"🥰

    Except a married bachelor."


    Now you've got it, MeanMrMustard! Except you forgot two things...


    (1) Marital status can change, and...


    (2) Evolutionary theorists are not just racist, they're also misogynistic.


    In his 1871 book The Descent of Man Charles Darwin wrote: “The chief distinction in the intellectual powers of the two sexes is [shown] by man attaining to a higher eminence, in whatever he takes up, than woman can attain--whether requiring deep thought, reason or imagination, or merely the use of the senses and hands.” He added, “Thus man has ultimately become superior to woman.” (quoted from article: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/darwin-was-sexist-and-so-are-many-modern-scientists/ )


    Some excerpts from Darwin's "The Descent of Man and Selection in Relation to Sex" 1871...


    https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2300/pg2300-images.html




    "Now, when two men are put into competition, or a man with a woman, both possessed of every mental quality in equal perfection, save that one has higher energy, perseverance, and courage, the latter will generally become more eminent in every pursuit, and will gain the ascendancy. (24. J. Stuart Mill remarks (‘The Subjection of Women,’ 1869, p. 122), “The things in which man most excels woman are those which require most plodding, and long hammering at single thoughts.” What is this but energy and perseverance?) He may be said to possess genius—for genius has been declared by a great authority to be patience; and patience, in this sense, means unflinching, undaunted perseverance. But this view of genius is perhaps deficient; for without the higher powers of the imagination and reason, no eminent success can be gained in many subjects. These latter faculties, as well as the former, will have been developed in man, partly through sexual selection,—that is, through the contest of rival males, and partly through natural selection, that is, from success in the general struggle for life; and as in both cases the struggle will have been during maturity, the characters gained will have been transmitted more fully to the male than to the female offspring. It accords in a striking manner with this view of the modification and re-inforcement of many of our mental faculties by sexual selection, that, firstly, they notoriously undergo a considerable change at puberty (25. Maudsley, ‘Mind and Body,’ p. 31.), and, secondly, that eunuchs remain throughout life inferior in these same qualities. Thus, man has ultimately become superior to woman...."


    "It must be borne in mind that the tendency in characters acquired by either sex late in life, to be transmitted to the same sex at the same age, and of early acquired characters to be transmitted to both sexes, are rules which, though general, do not always hold. If they always held good, we might conclude (but I here exceed my proper bounds) that the inherited effects of the early education of boys and girls would be transmitted equally to both sexes; so that the present inequality in mental power between the sexes would not be effaced by a similar course of early training; nor can it have been caused by their dissimilar early training. In order that woman should reach the same standard as man, she ought, when nearly adult, to be trained to energy and perseverance, and to have her reason and imagination exercised to the highest point; and then she would probably transmit these qualities chiefly to her adult daughters. All women, however, could not be thus raised, unless during many generations those who excelled in the above robust virtues were married, and produced offspring in larger numbers than other women. As before remarked of bodily strength, although men do not now fight for their wives, and this form of selection has passed away, yet during manhood, they generally undergo a severe struggle in order to maintain themselves and their families; and this will tend to keep up or even increase their mental powers, and, as a consequence, the present inequality between the sexes. (26. An observation by Vogt bears on this subject: he says, “It is a remarkable circumstance, that the difference between the sexes, as regards the cranial cavity, increases with the development of the race, so that the male European excels much more the female, than the negro the negress. Welcker confirms this statement of Huschke from his measurements of negro and German skulls...."

    Cofty said: "Darwin had been largely correct."

    I know you are ignoring the evidence, Cofty.

    Cofty: "Totally ignored the evidence of course.Troll"

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