by dedalus 61 Replies latest social entertainment
Talesin, did you take your screen name from Mists of Avalon? It's Merlin's name. (Merlin was a title)
I am sorry I missed it on TV. I want to see it again now. I am halfway through it, and can see a lot of things they changed and left out. I am still really enjoying it.
Anyone that encourages anyone to read should be respected. Does it matter WHO, also she chose a classic and your stereotyping of the age base it reaches is ridiculous I have read this since I was a teen and I'm 39. My daughter loves the book and is 20?????? Have you read it or just going by something you've read.
Sheila, it seems you don't read carefully. I was talking about the activities of Oprah's book club, the swinging camera shots of her audience, which consists mostly of women about your age, waving the books over their heads, thrilling to the hype of ... Steinbeck? This is a curious cultural phenomenon. I'm not content to say "all reading is good" and complacently leave it at that.
Anyway, that phenomenon is what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about your teenage years. I'm not talking about your daughter. I never said that only middle-aged women read Steinbeck.
I am talking about the intersection of commerce and art. And one the one hand, Sheila, I agree with you. I want to live in a world where people read literature. And when millions of people are reading Steinbeck, that's good.
On the other hand, I don't want to live in a world where a single media mogul can so pervasively influence literary trends, nor in a world where an entire demographic does what one person tells it to do. I also don't want to live in a world where art is bowdlerized in shallow TV "discussions" ("It's a page turner!"; "It's like a movie!") with merchandise tie-ins (even if this raises money for charity, there's still something creepy about it, and it's that "something" I'm trying to understand).
I have similar reservations about Harry Potter. It's a franchise, but is it literature? If the excerpts I've read are any indication, these books simply are not the stellar masterworks they're made out to be. Yet adults beat their chests with pride for having read them, as if this is a worthy achievement, as if they've done something "literary." Harold Bloom, portentous/pretentious ass that he is, might be asking the right questions. Are people reading for the right reasons? Are they even reading for the reasons they think they're reading?
On the other hand, I've been to my share of graduate seminars, and I've seen great books disemboweled by the harsh scalpel of theory, in the hallowed name of "criticism." And I felt that was a disservice to art as well. Academia, with its descent into the exceedingly esoteric world of theory, isn't always doing what it should with literature, and in the wake of that failure, perhaps an Oprah-messiah is needed? As you can see, Sheila, I haven't reached firm conclusions all around.
One thing that has encouraged me on this thread is the "take it or leave it" attitude some Oprah watchers have about her club.
Anyway, if you can stay in the context of these remarks, Sheila, you might have something useful to say in this discussion. I'd love for you to disagree with me, but I'd prefer the disagreement to be relevant.
Dedalus
All I can say about the above post is..whatever.
First Lisa posted:
Encouraging people to read great literature (eduacating, really) and raising money for charity: whats wrong with that?
My above post, though directed at Sheila, answers that, rather thoroughly and at least somewhat thoughtfully. Lisa's response is:
All I can say about the above post is..whatever.
Why? Don't get it? Disagree with it? Don't like discussions about these types of things? Is this how Oprah's book discussions generally go? Dedalus
Of course, what I meant was women who are at about that age, mid-to-late forty-somethings
Ded: You said this I AM NOT MID-To-Late forty-something nor is my daughter THAT WAS MY POINT. So, I was on topic. You make an asinine remark like pre- or post-menopasul and then have the audacity to be rude to me, because you didn't like what I said.
Funny, I meet with a book group and a writer's group all who have Masters degrees or Doctorates. They aren't thumbing their nose at this bookclub. To be a good writer you must "read, read, read." If this is the venue to get people to read then why be negative about it. The more people read the more they want to read.
As far as your disdain for Harry Potter, I wish to write children's books also. To write you must read, simple enough. Thunder and I are both VERY well read everything from the classics, mythology to Sci-Fi but alas we are not snobs about it.
PS
Sheila, it seems you don't read carefully.I read very carefully. Just because I chose not to address what you wanted me to and instead addressed what you SAID that does not mean I did not read it.
Of course, what I meant was women who are at about that age, mid-to-late forty-somethingsDed: You said this I AM NOT MID-To-Late forty-something nor is my daughter THAT WAS MY POINT. So, I was on topic. You make an asinine remark like pre- or post-menopasul and then have the audacity to be rude to me, because you didn't like what I said.
I said it of women who were in Oprah's TV audience, Sheila. I didn't say it of you or your daughter. I didn't say it of any woman who wasn't in Oprah's studio that day.
It's not that I necessarily disliked what you said. I simply noted its irrelevance to what I'd written.
Funny, I meet with a book group and a writer's group all who have Masters degrees or Doctorates. They aren't thumbing their nose at this bookclub.
Good for them. How about what I wrote, though? I have a few degrees myself, if that makes my remarks any more relevant to you.
I'm not, as you put it, thumbing my nose at the bookclub. Really, I'm not. I am trying to understand what's going on in America as a result of it. Oprah and the classics and a bunch of tote bags are all in the same boat together. It's a bizarre mix.
I didn't accuse you of not being well-read. It is because you are well read that I consider your opinion important. I'm just hoping there's more to your opinion than "all reading is good." The thing I'm trying to discuss in this thread is more complicated than that, to me anyway.
Dedalus
Ok, I wasn't gonna, but here goes my 2 cents again:
Dedalus:
All I could find in that big long post of yours is that you don't like it because it is popular: A lot of people read the books Oprah recommends. In fact, more than a lot of people read the books Oprah recommends.
My point is that THAT, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. I think (but I can’t read your mind here), that it just gives you the creeps because it reminds you of your past: A lot of people, unfortunately, read what the WBTS recommends.
Again, I could be wrong here. It could be that you just don’t like ANYTHING popular just because it is popular. Or maybe it is something else.
But, if the reason is that it reminds you too much of JW sheep, then here are my comments:
These two things are not the same. I mean, on one hand you have a bunch of people doing no thinking on their own, (reading all the same books), blindly following a group of men in Brooklyn who are lying to them and taking their money, their time and their lives.
And on the other hand you have Oprah recommending novels she likes, holding open discussions about the books, AND donating all the money to charity.
I think your reaction is a bit of posttraumatic stress.
Most of the time, that loud noise you hear is a car backfiring, not a gunshot.
Relax and read a book!
J
-LisaBObeesa
ps you said:
Is this how Oprah's book discussions generally go?
OMG what a smart a$$@! LOL! Btw, haven’t you even SEEN the discussions?
I absolutely DARE you to go ahead and read East of Eden again and watch the Oprah program with the discussion. You said it was a good book, right? What, are you chicken?
Now we're getting somewhere!
Lisa, I've never been psychologically deconstructed like that before. In fact, I'm slightly creeped out. Let me see ... I dislike the popularity of Oprah's book club because I suffer a sort of ... post-traumatic stress disorder ... after being made to read the Organization's literature (the Revelation book in particular, I'm sure). Is that it? Incredible! Maybe in a PM you can help me sort through all of the adolescent angst I'm still carrying around for my father?
Seriously, Lisa, I don't think that's it, but you may be onto something: for whatever reason, I may distrust whatever is popular. Or, I may be one of those guys -- snobs, whatever -- for whom the reading and writing of fiction is so important, I become frustrated when literature is treated with anything less than religious reverence.
(Parenthetically: If it helps, if it matters, if you're interested, here's my online book list at Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/1W0C7PWFOABV9/ref=cm_aya_lm_title.more/103-6175895-9706202 Why my wife's name is on this, I have no idea.)
I absolutely DARE you to go ahead and read East of Eden again and watch the Oprah program with the discussion. You said it was a good book, right? What, are you chicken?
You've got it! In fact -- believe it or not -- I've just now registered at Oprah.com and am an official book club member (much to my surprise, Oprah admits cynical twenty-something males into the club -- who knew?). I looked around for an air date, but didn't find one. Still, I work at a television station that airs her show (the same television station that formerly employed Gayle King, Oprah's best friend), so I'll be able to see it, or obtain a tape if I'm not working and miss it.
Now, if it's silly, you have to let me make fun of it! (Rubbing hands together, cackling evilly)
Dedalus
P.S. Edited to add:
All I could find in that big long post of yours is that you don't like it because it is popular:
I do think I was saying at least a little more than that ...
Heheh, you said bowdlerized.
Parenthetically: If it helps, if it matters, if you're interested, here's my online book list at Amazon.com
Your book list makes me want to read.
Or, I may be one of those guys -- snobs, whatever -- for whom the reading and writing of fiction is so important, I become frustrated when literature is treated with anything less than religious reverence.
I said I could be wrong..
Now, if it's silly, you have to let me make fun of it! (Rubbing hands together, cackling evilly)
I am sure that no matter what, you will find a way to make fun of it. But I am impressed you signed up and are going to re-read it! I think I will read the book, too.
