"Do JW's and Born-Again Christians have something in common?

by jads 57 Replies latest jw friends

JT

This is the basic dilema most all of the worlds religions face....they present themselves as generally very magnanomous about other religious beliefs, but when you really corner them, make them confess their true beliefs about all non-believer's, they must if truly honest admit.........DO IT OUR WAY OR YOU DIE!
That was my whole point in responses as to why 'born again'....'allah praisers'....whomever all share something very much in common.
YOUR DOOMED AND OF SATAN THE DEVIL...........if you don't do it our way.

Botom line BY DEFAULT-
belief systems in general are REQUIRED to step forward and claim WE GOT THE INSIDE TRACK TO GOD AND YOU DON'T
and like you stated --if you don't do it the way 'I DO IT ' MY DADDY WILL KILL YOU
SMILE
and this is the part of the "FINE PRINT" that most believers are not willing to ADMIT
how sad
at least the Musliums ARE HONEST unlike the christians- for they will tell you in a heartbeat, yep Straight up -
"We got to get rid of the INFIDELS"
UnDisfellowshipped

JT said:
Botom line BY DEFAULT-
belief systems in general are REQUIRED to step forward and claim WE GOT THE INSIDE TRACK TO GOD AND YOU DON'T
and like you stated --if you don't do it the way 'I DO IT ' MY DADDY WILL KILL YOU
SMILE
and this is the part of the "FINE PRINT" that most believers are not willing to ADMIT
how sad
at least the Musliums ARE HONEST unlike the christians- for they will tell you in a heartbeat, yep Straight up -
"We got to get rid of the INFIDELS"
You want to know how I preach?
I come right and say what I believe:

According to the Bible, if you do not believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible, and that He died for you, then you are NOT going to be saved and you are NOT going to go to Heaven. The Bible teaches that you will be eternally separated from God.
DannyBear

UnD,
You get the grand prize UnD........as the cheers and hoots of all your fellow fundies revel in the sheer glory of knowing just how special you are in the eyes of god.
Men have always been drawn to secret societies, closed clubs, that only admit those who know the proper pass words.
It it any wonder so many want to join your club? Man you offer eternal bliss, closeness to god, heavenly thrones.......its a pretty damn special club eh.
There is another club anyone can join if so inclined that offers the faithful devotee a chance to obtain perfection in heaven and enjoy 72 virgins to cater your every whim and fancy. They have a prophet who lived around the time of Jesus to. Yes they have a big bound volume of sacred scripture which they preach and teach as god's message to mankind.
And if the truth be known UnD, it was probably sheer chance that you were born in a country devoted to the Jesus Club................because the greater population of the world belongs to the other club Islam.
Wonder why god is so fickel, he just allows man to start any ole club, with whatever benefits they seem to desire, and just goes along with the whole thing. He is really easy.
Or is it just man creating whatever he needs, to try and answer the really hard questions.
You tell me.
Danny
UnDisfellowshipped

DannyBear said:
UnD,
You get the grand prize UnD........as the cheers and hoots of all your fellow fundies revel in the sheer glory of knowing just how special you are in the eyes of god.
What good is name-calling? Why do you feel that you have to label people as "fundies" etc.? What's the difference between doing that and labeling people by race or color? All humans are sinful, imperfect creatures in the viewpoint of God. It is only by the wonderful grace (totally undeserved kindness and love) of Jesus Christ that anyone is saved. I am a pathetic sinner who deserves to burn in Hell for eternity. I am not an expert on anything. I try to be humble and loving and I try to tell others about Jesus Christ and the Bible. That's all.
DannyBear said:
Men have always been drawn to secret societies, closed clubs, that only admit those who know the proper pass words.
It it any wonder so many want to join your club? Man you offer eternal bliss, closeness to god, heavenly thrones.......its a pretty damn special club eh.
"Join my club"? I don't even go to any church. There is absolutely no "pass words", and no secrets in the Christianity of the Bible. The requirements to "join this club" and become a Christian and be saved? 1: Repent of your sins and believe with all your heart that the Jesus Christ of the Bible is your Lord and Savior, and that He died for you. 2: Doing good works cannot save anyone. No amount of good works can save anyone at all. Only the shed Blood of Jesus can save you. Jesus has already done EVERYTHING for you -- the only thing left is for you to BELIEVE in Him. Commandments to follow: 1: Love God with all your heart, mind, and soul. 2: Love your neighbor as yourself. 3: Do to others what you want them to do to you. 4: Love your enemies. 5: Pray to God and read the Bible everyday. Things that Christians should do, but ARE NOT required to be saved: 1: Be baptized. 2: Go to a Bible-based church. 3: Preach the Good News.
DannyBear said:
There is another club anyone can join if so inclined that offers the faithful devotee a chance to obtain perfection in heaven and enjoy 72 virgins to cater your every whim and fancy. They have a prophet who lived around the time of Jesus to. Yes they have a big bound volume of sacred scripture which they preach and teach as god's message to mankind.
And if the truth be known UnD, it was probably sheer chance that you were born in a country devoted to the Jesus Club................because the greater population of the world belongs to the other club Islam.
Wonder why god is so fickel, he just allows man to start any ole club, with whatever benefits they seem to desire, and just goes along with the whole thing. He is really easy.
Or is it just man creating whatever he needs, to try and answer the really hard questions.
You tell me.

I'll try to post more when I have more time free.
Islam also has more terrorists than any other religion, if I am not mistaken.
Islam also teaches that unrepentant "Apostates" (people who join a different religion) are to be killed, if I am not mistaken.
There are several Christians who are trying to preach to the Muslims in the Muslim countries -- just take a look at the latest TIME Magazine.
So, Muslim countries are definitely being exposed to Christianity.
If you truly want to know whether Islam or Christianity is the true religion (or if there is a true religion), then I highly suggest that you imitate the Noble-Minded Beroeans (Acts 17:11), and do research, investigate, and read about Muhammad in the Holy Writings of the Muslims -- and read about Jesus in the Holy Writings of the New Testament.
outnfree

I am a pathetic sinner who deserves to burn in Hell for eternity.

How sad!
Why do you think so little of yourself, UnDisfellowshipped? What have you done deserving of death by eternal burning? Been born human?
Did not God create you? Did you ASK to be born of sinful ancestors (Adam and Eve)? Did YOU have any control over that AT ALL???? No? Yet you think of yourself as a marred creation who is deserving of a death that even human parents wouldn't plan for their offspring!!!
Does the rest of creation grovel in this "I am not worthy" way? No? Because they are LOWER than humans, they don't have to worry about a worse fate?
If the punishment is more severe for humans because our forefathers (but not us) knew better, then (to borrow another poster's topic), just why DOES Satan get to survive Armageddon? Surely, being a fallen angel (angels being higher creatures than humans, right?), he deserves an even worse fate than fallen man? So -- is the abyss worse than eternal hellfire? And will you get to roam the heavens for millenia before you eventually get sent to hell?
Ohhhhh! But you're not going to hell. But I am. Because you've accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior, and me? I'm questioning all that I ever once took for granted.
One thing I'm sure of, however, there is NO WAY that you OR I "deserve to burn in hell for eternity."
outnfree (who went from the JWs to a born-again church and had the same *warning!* *warning!* bells go off as the hidden agenda came to light: control by fear, control by conformity, control by diminishing one's self-esteem)
Hamas

Undisfellowshipped,
As you know, my friend, I respect your opinion and I have always found your posts very interesting to the point of actually adding your words to my website; which you have allowed and I am very grateful for.
However, I am sad to see you speaking in this way:
Islam also has more terrorists than any other religion, if I am not mistaken.
Islam also teaches that unrepentant "Apostates" (people who join a different religion) are to be killed, if I am not mistaken.
There are several Christians who are trying to preach to the Muslims in the Muslim countries -- just take a look at the latest TIME Magazine.
So, Muslim countries are definitely being exposed to Christianity

I find it so sad that so called loving Christians resort to attacking a religion that is not so different to theirs. I just can't understand the mentality of people like Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Frank Graham and Jerry Vines, who at free will simply slate Islam when in effect they know very little about it.
Just as Christianity is a way of life for you and many others, Islam is also a way of life for others. The fact is, we just don't know what truth is. You can quote Bible verses to me, and I can cite Qu'ran verses to you, but at the end of the day, we will go around in circles. To attack another persons faith simply because we think we have the answers I think is so wrong.
Islam believes in ALL the prophets; Abraham, Mosses, Jesus and Mohammed. Islam teaches love of ones neighbour ; it teaches God's law, justice and peace. Just as Timothy McVeigh was a Christian that decided to blow up hundreds of people, so too was any Muslim terrorist that decides to do the same thing. However, this doesn't represent the religion of Islam; just as it doesn't represent the religion of Christianity.
Take a look at this link, I have written about this.
http://www.escapethewatchtower.com/fundamental_christians_p1.htm
In no way am I speaking badly of Christianity, it is just those mindless few that are on par with those Islamic fundamentalists.
Jesus taught us not to judge our fellowman, yet this is what these Christians are doing. Many Christian websites decide to downgrade Islam; believing that such tactics blind open minds. Sad fact is, they do. Don't believe everything they say.
Shakita

Jads,
You are right on the mark here. I think that the attitudes of the JW's and the born agains are the same. The JW's say that if you don't believe exactly as we intrepret the Bible to be, then you will all become crispy crittters at Armageddon. The born agains say that if we don't accept their interpretation of the Bible then we will all be cast into the really, really hot pizza oven or something like that. Hmmm. Let me see. Do I want to be reduced to burning embers or do I want to be roasted to a very fine reddish exterior for all eternity. That's a toughy. Decisions, decisions.
Mr. Shakita
UnDisfellowshipped

Hi Hamas,
Thank you for your comments.
I got the information about Islam teaching that unrepentant "Apostates" should be killed from WorldNetDaily.com, and here is the News Story:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33406
FAITH UNDER FIRE
Petition to Muslims:
Stop killing converts
Urges reform of apostasy law
mandating death for leaving Islam
Posted: July 4, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern © 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
A British charity has issued a petition challenging Muslim leaders to call for reform or reinterpretation of the Islamic law of apostasy.
Under Shariah, or Islamic law, Muslims who convert to another faith and refuse to repent must be put to death.
The petition by the England-based Barnabas Fund asks for signatures from those who believe "Muslims who choose to convert to another faith should be free to do so without having to face a lifetime of fear."
The group acknowledges the tradition is upheld and taught by most Muslim religious leaders around the world. But it notes a reformist interpretation that claims an apostate can be put to death only if he also is a danger to the Islamic state.
Traditionalists insist, nevertheless, every apostate is a danger to the Islamic social order and has committed high treason.
Some schools of Shariah teach the death penalty should be applied to women as well. Other punishments prescribed by Shariah include annulment of marriage, removal of children and loss of all property and inheritance rights.
In countries such as Iran, Sudan and Saudi Arabia, converts have faced imprisonment, death threats, torture and beatings. Some have been executed, and others have died in prison or disappeared. Barnabas also notes converts often face widespread hostility and aggression from their own families and communities even in more moderate Muslim countries and in Western nations where Muslims are a minority.
Patrick Sookhdeo, the Barnabas Fund's international director, cited a recent example from the Kurdish authority area of Northern Iraq. Ziwar Muhammad Isma'il was shot and killed at a taxi stand Feb. 17, he said, "simply because Ziwar was a Muslim who had chosen to convert to Christianity."
"At the beginning of the 21st century, it is outrageous that such brutal persecution of converts is still taking place," Sookhdeo said. "It is time the world took notice and began to demand an end to it."
A statement by Barnabas said, while "Islamic societies are not unique in their persecution of converts, only in Islam are the death penalty and other harsh punishments for converts such a well attested, accepted and orthodox part of traditional religious law."
The petition urges Western governments, the U.N. Commission on Human Rights and other international institutions to urgently raise the issue with Muslim leaders and organizations.
It appeals to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which affirms the right of individuals to "change" their religion and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which upholds the right to "adopt" a religion of choice without fear of persecution.
In recent years, Barnabas said, moderate Muslim organizations such as Malaysia's Sisters in Islam and the Islamic Research Academy of Al-Azhar University in Cairo, the most important institution in the Sunni stream of Islam, increasingly have called for a reinterpretation of Islamic teaching on apostasy to make it more just and humane.
"Through its new petition, Barnabas Fund is calling on all people of good will to help moderate Muslims by lending their support to these calls for change," the group said.
Ravyn

this is what I dont understand....
ok when you were a teen ager I am sure that your mother or father told you as you had tears streaming down your face atleast ONCE that if that wonderful boy or pretty girl you were in love with did not really love you , then it was degrading for you to pursue it..they were obviously not who you thought they were, and you deserved better....(or something to that effect...)
so, there is this God who loves me, no matter what I do and he will always be there if I call, always ready to show me how much he loves me above all else, even to the point of sacrificing his own child for me whether I wanted him to do that or not.....and in the end if I still don't love him-he will kill me.
my first response to this is that God is a dangerous psychopathic stalker. The second response is why would God want someone who does not really love him? Aren't there enough others who do? Aren't they good enough? Will he always want what he does not have? Does this sound like God has it all together emotionally?
Any religion that tells me it is the only one and the only way to worship God and their God is the only true one...is absolutely insane and I want nothing to do with it.
THAT is what JWs and Fundys of all persuasions(primarily the Big Three Jerusalem religions) have in common.
Ravyn
UnDisfellowshipped

OutNFree said:
(Quoting UnDisfellowshipped:) I am a pathetic sinner who deserves to burn in Hell for eternity. (End of Quote)
How sad!
Why do you think so little of yourself, UnDisfellowshipped? What have you done deserving of death by eternal burning? Been born human?
Did not God create you? Did you ASK to be born of sinful ancestors (Adam and Eve)? Did YOU have any control over that AT ALL???? No? Yet you think of yourself as a marred creation who is deserving of a death that even human parents wouldn't plan for their offspring!!!
Does the rest of creation grovel in this "I am not worthy" way? No? Because they are LOWER than humans, they don't have to worry about a worse fate?
If the punishment is more severe for humans because our forefathers (but not us) knew better, then (to borrow another poster's topic), just why DOES Satan get to survive Armageddon? Surely, being a fallen angel (angels being higher creatures than humans, right?), he deserves an even worse fate than fallen man? So -- is the abyss worse than eternal hellfire? And will you get to roam the heavens for millenia before you eventually get sent to hell?
Ohhhhh! But you're not going to hell. But I am. Because you've accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior, and me? I'm questioning all that I ever once took for granted.
One thing I'm sure of, however, there is NO WAY that you OR I "deserve to burn in hell for eternity."
outnfree (who went from the JWs to a born-again church and had the same *warning!* *warning!* bells go off as the hidden agenda came to light: control by fear, control by conformity, control by diminishing one's self-esteem)
____________________________________________________
According to the Bible, every human being, in God's eyes, deserves to go to Hell as the punishment for their own individual sins, as well as for the inherited sins of Adam.
God has absolute Justice, absolute Wisdom, absolute Love, absolute Mercy, absolute Grace.
God is absolutely Sovereign.
Humans cannot even begin to understand all of the things God does.
I have complete faith, trust, and hope in Jesus Christ for salvation.
Since Jesus Christ saved me, I am a "New Creation" -- it is no longer I living, but Christ living in me.
Galatians 2:20: I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.
Even though, in the eyes of God, I was a pathetic sinner, God loved me so much that He died for me.
I will never judge whether another person is going to Hell or not.
JESUS is the Judge.
Romans 14:10-13: But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you despise your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written: "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God." So then each of us shall give account concerning himself to God. Therefore let us no longer judge one another, but judge this rather, not to put a stumbling block or an offense before our brother.
I do not believe that the Devil is going to be having a party inside "The Abyss" for 1,000 years.
In fact, the Bible shows that "The Abyss" where Satan and the demons are going to for 1,000 years is a place of torment:
Luke 8:28-31: And seeing Jesus and crying out, he fell down before Him, and with a loud voice he said, "What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You, do not torment me!" For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out from the man. For it had seized him at times, and he was bound, kept under guard, with chains and shackles; and he broke the bonds and was driven by the demon into the wilderness. Jesus asked him, saying, "What is your name?" And he said, "Legion," because many demons had entered into him. And he kept imploring Him that He would not command them to go out into the Abyss.
Also, after the 1,000 years, the Devil is going to receive the most severe punishment imaginable inside of the Lake of Fire forever and ever.

"Do JW's and Born-Again Christians have something in common?

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