Greven: You pose a good question. We've always been taught that the issue will be settled and that Satan will have been the only person to formally raise that issue. But what will stop someone else from raising it? The whole thing is one dumb-cruel joke. It really does wonder for your self-esteem knowing you're just the pawn of a bet.
Saint Satan: Well said.
Noumenon: I dig your sincerity, but the point is, the premise of the whole issue is not based on logic. I always figured that once the "new scrolls" that the WTS is always talkin' about would be revealed, then we would get a credible answer to the whole thing. I don't question whether God exists, but I do question the validity of the sovreignty theology. I don't crave independence from God, I crave to understand him/her. If any other parent did what God did, they would get the book thrown at them by a court of law and deemed an unworthy parent. If God really cares about mankind so deeply, it sure isn't evident in the way in which the sovreignty issue was handled. I think peeps have gone along with the whole thing because someone decided to declare it was right.
The Bible hasn't given a SATISFACTORY answer to that. My question is: where is the answer buried?
Happyout: I so needed to hear you say that. Good points!
run dont walk: That's the thing that always bugged me. Satan and the demons seem to be the ones who get something out of this. At least they make it to the PARADISE, while most everyone else gets deep-sixed at Armageddon. And another thing is why does Satan get get shown so much respect by getting the chance to RAISE ISSUES? If I wanted to raise a sovreignty issue, God wouldn't give a f**k?
Mr Kim: yeah....the vibes are alive.
Funky Derek: The "Trading Places" analogy is on-point as are your comments. There is major doubt cast on the bible's validity by this demented bedtime story. I thought the whole Job story was disturbing. Job did nothing to deserve that treatment, and its always been explained away by saying that God rewarded him with more riches and a new set of kids, but again why go through that, and was there really solace in the fact that Job got a new set of kids. Wouldn't he have missed his original offspring that got killed? There's so much NON-SENSICAL thinking in those nursery rhymes that it's giving me a headache thinking about it.
"Rational thought has begun to replace primitive superstition" - I dig that quote Derek.
Religions always explain away that things are beyond our understanding because God's thoughts are higher than ours, but if we're made in his image, his decisions should reflect some type of reasonable logic and that whole sovreignty issue is far from it.
Berylblue: Interesting thoughts. And your illustration really hits the point home.
Thunder Rider: This is what's always bothered me. Why cater to the whims of Satan just because he had an attitude problem. There certainly seems to be an ego-problem going on with God and Satan. And you raise a good point: "How can you love someone and allow them to suffer for your good name." Excellent point.