The Idiocy of the Universal Sovreignty Issue (page 4)

DannyBear

Funky I enjoyed your response to Nou.

Well lets just see if our newbie Mr. Nou turns tail and runs like the hundreds of other 'true believer's' that have spouted indignation about us eeeevil apostates.

Danny

berylblue

Just content to remain in your smug little deluded world of having written off Jehovah, his Christ, and his inspired word > then do so at your peril.
I know what I believe. Good luck to the rest of the closet atheists and God haters on this thread...you're gonna need all the luck you can get.

I truly appreciate your loving, Christian sentiments.

You have clearly demonstrated who YOUR father is....

DannyBear

City Fan,

***The bible only has value when the good principles in it are applied. And the bible has good principles in it such as the fruitage of the spirit (Gal 5:22-23) but so do other holy writings.***

You don't have to believe in YHWH to agree with what you say.

Danny

You bring up an interesting point. "God gives you instincts and then chastiese you for following them. It almost appears he's not involved anymore. Yet he says a sparrow doesn't fall but that he is aware of it. Makes me feel so small."

This is what has always confounded me. If he wants us to love him so much, why does he make it so hard and confusing? It makes no sense.

Noumenon:

I'm not a bible hater or God hater as you so ignorantly assert. But I do think it's high-time to admit FACTS here and that is what I was taught in the WTS and what many were taught IN and OUT of the WTS has little logic and common sense. Instead of condemning everyone for having no faith, this would've been a nice opportunity for you to articulate some kind of sensical logic to this discussion. I believe that there is a spirit world, and that there is a God. I DON'T BELIEVE that we have anywhere near the FULL STORY as to why things are the way they are. The bible's explanation reads like a third-rate "Lord of the Rings" tale. I'd be happy to take you up on your bet. Most posters on here are current and/or former JW's. Get a clue.

SixofNine:

Dig your daughter's take on da' whole thing.

Dannybear:

Good points. That another thing that's always ticked me off and that's there are only 2 choices. It DISHONORS having this "gift" of free-will that we're supposed to have. That whole thing is insulting.

Yerusalyim:

Yep, good point. God does seem extremely petty. What made Satan so important?

City Fan:

Well said.

funkyderek:

Couldn't say it any better. Great response!

JT

REPOST

Human Misery For Dum*ies

JT

HERE YOU GO IT DIDNT SHOW UP IN THE ABOVE POST

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WARNING!! Those of you with tender religious sensibilities should NOT read this post. Only those of you with the thickest of skins should proceed. This is going to get ugly…

God gets bored. He decides to make some creatures to keep him company. After a while, they all get bored, too. God says, “Hey let’s make some mortal creatures and mess them all up.” They all agree that is a good idea, so God creates two humans.

“First thing we have to do is give them a test they couldn’t possibly pass, and then mess them up when they fail it,” God declares. So God says (in effect) to the two humans, “Look, you both are pretty stupid, but there’s a tree over there that will give you all the knowledge of good and bad that you need to know. There’s only one minor problem. The day you eat from it, I’ll kill you.”

So the couple obeyed him. After a while, God becomes bored again, and says, “They’re NOT eating from that tree. What should I do? This is boring.” One of his companions says, “Why don’t you trick them into eating from it?” God says, “Good idea! Let it be done.” One of the companions decided that he could trick one of them by using a talking animal, so he picked a snake. One of the other companions said, “You moron! Snakes don’t even have vocal cords!” The first one replies, “No problem. I’ll use ventriloquism. They’re pretty dumb. They’ll think it is actually the snake that is talking.”

So the “talking” snake tricks the woman and the woman convinces the man to also eat from the tree. When they both discovered they were then in deep doo-doo with God, they declared, “Hey, we have SEX organs! We never noticed we had them before! It’s embarrassing to have SEX organs! We’d better cover ourselves up and hide from God.” They were a REALLY stupid couple.

So God says, “First, I’ll screw up the snake by knocking off his legs.” And God knocked off the snake’s legs. A companion said, “Ok, God, I guess you have to keep your word and kill that couple right now.” God replies, “Heck, no! It took a long time to make them. I think I’ll let them be miserable for, say hundreds of years. I’ll make the woman be miserable when she gives birth, I’ll make them sweat and be in pain when they work, and I’ll kick them out of the garden. I get to watch them get old, worn-out and die in pain. Then, I’ll make ALL of their children and children’s children miserable. That should be FUN to watch! Later on, we’ll get some guy to write that my days are 1,000 years long. No one will know the difference.”

After a while God says, “I have to have a way to let these humans know that I really enjoy killing, so I think I’ll have those two guys Cain and Abel offer up something for me. The one that doesn’t kill anything is going to be the one that suffers.” Cain didn’t kill anything, so he suffered. Abel killed something and thought that by so doing that he wouldn’t have to suffer. He was wrong. Cain killed him. God thought the whole show was hilarious.

God gets bored again. “I think I’ll kill the entire planet, except for a few folks,” he said. And he did. As soon as the leader of the survivors got of the Ark, he killed something to show his gratitude for God killing everyone on the planet except him and his family.

Later on this guy named “Nimrod” went around killing all sorts of creatures and humans and he became legendary. Nothing bad happened to him, except God got bored and let him die. God says to one of his companions, “Even though I think Nimrod was a pretty cool guy, let somebody write that I didn’t like him. I don’t want those stupid humans to know what kind of a show we really have going on up here.”

God gets bored just about the time a bunch of people decide to erect a high-rise building. God says, “I think I’ll kill them all.” The companions plead with him, “Don’t do that! With all this killing it’s going to take forever to get that earth populated.” God say, “Ok, but I’m still going to screw them up by giving them a whole bunch of different languages to speak. You guys take care of it, but there’s only a couple of details: 1) Make sure that only two people are able to speak each language, and make sure one is a male and the other is a female. 2) If a man is short, fat and ugly, make sure his companion is tall, skinny and beautiful, and vice-versa. That way at least ONE of each couple will be miserable.” And it was done, and God had a ball watching those tiny bands of wretched humans who had to start all over again in building their lives, families and cultures.

God again gets bored and tries all sorts of things for entertainment. He tries to get this guy named Abraham to kill his son, and Abraham almost did it. God promises to “bless” Abraham’s offspring for nearly killing his son, and Abraham believed him. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Was that ever a clever ruse! Abraham had no idea what was in store for his offspring: hundreds and hundreds of years of forced slavery, zillions of skirmishes and wars, and of course, God personally doing tons of killing to that “blessed” offspring over the millennia to come. “I’ll bet that stupid Abraham would be shocked to know I’m gonna allow 6,000,000 of his offspring to starve to death, get gassed to death and die in all sorts of horrible ways,” God snarled.

Got gets bored yet again and decides to make a bet with one of his companions: “See that guy Job down there? Mess him up. Give him boils and kill his wife and kids. Have all his friends turn on him.” God wins the bet, and Job gets the booby prize: a new wife who turns out to be a total nag, and new kids who are lazy and stupid.

“See that guy named Lot down there?”, God asks. Make his three daughters seduce him into having sex with them, and then later on, have someone write how “righteous” he was. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh, by the way, kill is wife, too. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!”

One day one of his companions report to God that some teen-aged boys are teasing one of his prophets because he’s bald. “KILL THEM,” God orders. “Get a bunch of bears to rip them to shreds.” And so it was done.

As the centuries pass, the killings and human misery keep compounding, but God is still bored. “Make a bunch of nasty viruses,” he tells a companion. “I want to see some juicy pestilences. I want MILLIONS to die in the shortest possible time.”

After about 4,000 years of all this fun, God finds out that the people are beginning to get wise to his games, and God comes up with a clever plan to come out smelling like a rose: “I’m going to kill my firstborn son,” he said. “That’s horrible!” he was told. “That will even make you look worse than you do now.”

God replied, “Don’t worry, I’ve got it all figured out. You keep forgetting how stupid those humans really are. Here’s the plan: I’m going to have some words written that make it look like I was the good guy through all of this, and that it was man’s fault for the misery they’re in. I’m going to have them think I’ll “save them” from all this misery by having my Son get killed. Watch! They’ll buy every word of it!”

God almost has remorse over what is about to do, but then his son says things like “blessed are the merciful and they will be shown mercy,” and “take my yoke. It is kindly and light.”

“That DOES it,” God shouts. "I’m gonna kill now for sure! How DARE he say things like that?"

So God has his son killed and makes sure the son suffers a whole bunch before he dies. The companions say to him, “Well, God you did promise those humans that once your son died that a “ransom” was fully paid and that they would be delivered from the death and miserable situation you put them into in the first place. Are you going to keep that promise now?”

“Are you kidding?”, God replied. The fun is just beginning. We’ve got the Black Plague and a half-dozen major World Wars coming up. There are hundreds of millions of more people to kill. The best part is that those people who believed that I killed my son to deliver them from their misery are going to be the people who do most of the killing in my name in the future! Those humans are simply a pack of idiots. Never in my wildest dreams did I think this could be so much fun.”

And the “fun” continues to this very day, and the joke is on us...

Farkel

Black Man

Damn, JT that is profound...................

Black Man

up...........................

Black Man

It's like there are 2 different gods in the bible. The old testament God is petty, jealous, bloodthirsty, etc. While the New Testament God is portrayed as understanding, loving, forgiving, nurturing. I can't reconcile the new testament God with the Universal Sovreignty Issue. There's gotta be more to the story, if it's supposed to be true.........

micheal

I was always taught if you have the power to help someone and you don't your just as guilty. I.E. Say someone threw a man in a lake knowing that he couldn't swim and just walked away, but then there was another guy there who could throw a lifesaver in to rescue him but decides to wait a good half hour for no apparant reason. Well since that man cannot swim, he dies. Who is responsible? The guy who threw him in the lake or the guy who waited to throw him a lifejacket? Answer is Both.

So how can anyone respect the god of the witnesses? Esp. since every single one of us logically would save that drowing man right away.

The Idiocy of the Universal Sovreignty Issue

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