The really cool feeling of community within JWs
d4g: You may not end up with as many "friends" in the end, but the quality of those new relationships will doubtless be better overall, since your friendship will not compete with loyalty to an organization.
I would rather have a few people that really love me for WHO I am rather than many superficial and conditional relationships based on WHAT I (pretend to) believe.
Atheists can't possibly offer the same closeness and trust which Christianity offers.
Nothing brings people together like religiously motivated torture.
First of all, I am not mad at all at them. Actually when the elders came to visit more than a year after I went missing I told them I needed to be left alone and they have respected this. The topic discussed here is the cool feeling of community in the JW. I used my personal story to illustrate how this feeling is conditional to your support of the organisation. Anyone expressing doubts or any dissidence disqualifies you from their friendship. I decided to distance myself to salvage my relationship with my JW family members and avoid the heartache my JW wife would experience if I was officially disfeĺlowshipped. I believe you could find the same feeling of community within the mafia, just as long as you are willing to run protection rackets, prostitution rings, drug distribution and murders. Once you no longer wish to participate chances are you will be killed...with the JWs the assassination is social when you are considered as dead by the cult members. This is a very high price to pay for a conditional feeling of community. The reason I mentioned the close proximity of the Kingdom Hall is that if anyone really cared about my well being they could stop by to say hello instead of asking my wife to relay their "warm greetings". Obviously they're all waiting for me to find my way back and conform to belief system I can no longer believe in.
It's been a while since a theist made such a definitive and erroneous statement regarding atheists. We used to get them all the time. I believe we quietened the theists by presenting empirical data - you know Frank, it's information that is based on obtained by scientific methods rather than feelings, confirmation bias and cherry picking anecdotal experiences.
As we've presented on numerous occasions, the more atheistic a state, region or country, the more likely it is to be functional and happy. In the annual 'happiest nations' survey, the happiest nations (most of the top 20) are the most secular and atheistic. Sorry to burst your bubble (actually I'm not sorry at all - I derive great pleasure in it), but your statement regarding atheists is completely erroneous. The exact opposite appears to be the case.
One of the questions asked of those surveyed during the 'happiest nation' poll is if the respondent could count on someone in times of need, which is a question designed to measure the quality of community and relationships within communities. The most secular and atheistic nations scored the highest on this question.
I have a ton of this data, available for your viewing pleasure. PM me and I will send it to you.
Nvr2l8 / lovesjehovah = ok I get the lost sheep and pizza order illustrations.
I just find it odd at an organisation that is prepared to spend billions of dollars and man hours in recruitment and yet cant focus on it existing membership. But then again if a person can't be bothered placing an order then why should elders be bothered turning up. It's their inability to focus and retain its existing membership (and born ins) is where the problem lies. From what I've seen,there are very few coming in from the preaching work and more of the youth and existing members leaving. Wt money and time would be better spent focusing on these than going around with magerzines. Will they let it crash and burn or will they change only time will tell.
Im going to give you my experience of fading. First and foremost I am an apostate but that been said I have never verbally expressed my views. To this day I still don't know what to make of it as to weather I should be joyful or insulted for the lack of interest after 40 years of service. When I left I had not one elder show up. Not one. I had 2 visits. 1 was from a couple who were out in field service and I think it had more to do with wanting something to drink and count time. But the only one that I truly felt come around to see me as a friend was this notorious JW crazy guy who was considered a bad associate ( he has even done jail time). The only one. Out of all the 100s of JWs I knew in the local area he was the last one I thought would show. Although he wouldn't of changed my mind about the JWs it was good to see him and I enjoyed the visit. When I look back on my time as a JW I am just stunned to think that an outstanding moment was with a schizophrenic jail bird.
I have a inactive friend who also made a similar comment to me. He to had no elders visits. He had 4 visits of which 3/4 of those visits was to ask him why he wasn't at the meeting followed by a wt magerzine. Interestingly the only guy who visited him to see how was as a friend, was a guy who was considered spiritually week followed by sporadic meeting attendance.
With these 2 examples I can't help but think of that scripture that says? "Who of you will be the least amongst you will be the greatest and who ever is the greatest amongst you will be the least." They certainly could of showed the elders a few thing or 2.
I have found " The feeling of closeness, camaraderie, friendship with like minded people you could trust." since leaving the JW's.
It is not only possible, but it is REAL ! we all know that the JW's cannot be trusted as friends, as soon as you express some doubt about the religion, and let's face it, it is full of doubtful stuff ! they will tell the Elders, and they will no longer be your friends.
The feeling you had whilst among the JW's was not, in truth, to be trusted.
Yes, it is not easy to make new friends, but if I,as a born-in, and in for 58 years can do it, you can.
I take it that you meant "more secular state" rather than "atheistic state," DJS.
The People's Republic of North Korea is an atheistic state, but I wouldn't want to live there and doubt that you would.
My statement is accurate. The more secular and atheistic a state, region or nation is, the more likely it is functional and happy.
This suggests a strong correlation but not a direct correlation. N Korea is an oppressive dictatorship where state worship is the religion.
Yes of course I'm putting the other side of the story. There are always two sides. The WT destroyed me and my friends lives at the time because we spoke out against org. corruption. But there were some very good people as well. Many of them, perhaps all of them have been expelled now. But I don't hypothesise, This society has changed dramatically for the worse as any decent person will agree. (UK). I have personally experienced wickedness & selfishness on a grand scale where I live, but that is not to say there are not also good people who are atheists or whatever, but I don't see how children can grow up with a compassion for a stranger as the New testament teaches if they have absolutely no moral teaching whatever. There is unbelievable hypocrisy amongst JW's and those at the top are the most wicked, destroying families without turning a hair purely because they do not accept the GB as infallible, but when I was in it you knew that on the whole people were clean living, you knew very few girls would have slept with several blokes for instance, I suppose a really genuine person is always difficult to find whether Christian or atheist, but I think learning the teachings of Jesus is better than having no moral teaching.
So morality can only come from religion?