Dansk, where art thou ?

by Hamas 54 Replies latest jw friends

  • Dansk
    Dansk

    Andi - and E-man,

    I appreciate your posts, seriously! Perhaps I am allowing this to become personal (me versus the Watchtower, I mean).

    Yesterday my wife and I passed our older daughter in the car (she was with her husband in their car). They were pulling up outside their home whilst Claire and I were on our way to the shops. My old congregation has a Tuesday night meeting and they were dressed in their meeting attire. Obviously, they had come home early for a reason - my guess being my daughter was unwell. But there was nothing we could do. They didn't see us (I don't think) and THEY are SHUNNING us!!

    Destroying Watchtower is NOT my only goal in life - but messages to me on and off-list show the amount of support there is for a conscerted campaign of some kind. I wouldn't want to let so many people down.

    Dansk

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Dansk,

    Thanks for clearing that up.

    But you and I know a small number of us enthusiastically "got togther" in the campaign box seriously hoping to achieve something. So what's happened?

    Maybe we'd better go back there sometime soon, eh?

    Englishman.

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Dansk,

    The expression herding cats comes to mind. You are new to the XJW life and especially the XJW forums and are learning a hard lesson as to how difficult it is to mount and maintain any sensible campaign against the WTS. The time and effort expended are not worth the results.

    I have dealt with this issue with you on another occasion and have already mentioned in great detail that most of the changes wrought on the WTS have been through individuals with the needed contacts and not groups of people covering old ground. People like Raymond Franz, Jim Penton, AlanF, JanH, Norm, Kent, etc. etc. have expended thousands of hours, and thousands of pounds planting charges in the cracked foundations of the WTS. Please do not feel that because you do not see placards everywhere that much work is not being done in the background. We have a poster to this Board named Hawkaw for example who is doing a tremendous amount of legal work for the XJW's and using his contacts in ways that few are aware of.

    What many of us have learned is that the full frontal, in your face approach to challenging the WTS will not work because basically the rest of the world has far more important priorities than a small group of crackpot semi-fundamentalists like the WTS to deal with, and so they should. You must also realize that the best way of freeing the JW’s from the WTS hold on their lives is not by necessarily by public campaigns, but by helping individuals, patiently and over time to see what has happened to them. Most JW's feed their faith on bad publicity and XJW campaigns. The WTS has already manipulated their thinking about their 'enemies' in this regard, and their natural reaction is to close ranks, not scatter.

    As for reviewing the NWT, well it has been reviewed many times over the years and discussed ad-nasuem, both by scholars and by non-scholars. Furuli has written a book in its defense, which was reviewed also. The consensus of opinion among the reviewers is that it is a serviceable Bible, good in places and erratic in others when a bias is shown toward JW doctrine. Evangelists eat it for breakfast because of its anti-Trinitarian stance, but their views are not necessarily scholarly or any more correct than the WTS.

    Others Dansk, chose on an individual basis not to allow the WTS to steal any more of their lives from them than they have already lost, and do the very healthy thing of moving on with their lives. It would be churlish to suggest that by doing so they did not care about the ‘poor souls’ within the WTS, what they have realized is that the greatest challenge they can present to the WTS is how they live their lives.

    I understand your frustrations, but I soundly echo Englishman’s post. Those that shout into the wind may feel that they are accomplishing something, whereas if they looked at their feet they would see where the real work is taking place.

    Best regards - HS

    PS - I do agree that the Board has lost much of its zeal for the Truth....lol Where the dismantling of doctrine is concerned, this has already been done again and again and again. All that is left is pizza topping and apostatfests! I personally do not enjoy the 'chat show' nature of the Board as much as the more intense debates that we used to have, mainly because the standard of JW apologist is not what it used to be since 'You Know's' demise as a poster, but that seems to be the beasts nature these days. Perhaps I ought to mount a campiagn....

  • Brummie
    Brummie
    I strongly disagree! It appears most people on this forum are prepared to just accept the status quo, to go about their lives as though nothing can be done. I’m afraid I can’t do that.

    Geesh Dansk where have you been for the last how many years? Its ironical that you come into the biggest support group on the internet and assume that hardly anything is being done apart from what you and your militant friend are doing "alone". Doesnt a huge support group like this tell you that you are not doing it alone? Everyone wave at dansk and let him know you are there please.

    If everyone here put half the energy into uniting to give Watchtower a good kick as they do posting fluff I daresay we’d give the organisation something to seriously worry about.

    Perhaps you missed the WT getting a kick up the ass? Panorama, Dateline, international media reports yada yada...strike any cords? Dont ya think thats given them something to worry about? You may have had part in it but you certainly didnt do it without some of the people who post fluff on here!

    This forum is visited by thousands of us daily. Unfortunately, it is all too evident that it is becoming more of a "chat room" than a serious threat to Watchtower.

    Its visited 1000s daily who will read about the UN, Child abuse, dishonesty, life experiences etc but its not having an effect on the WT? ok.

    Those that are just waiting for Watchtower to eventually turn into another typically washed-out religion, which it may well do, are not helping the poor souls who are desperate for help now.

    You got help didnt you? I dont think there could be a handful of people on this board who are not out to help the desperate poor souls. Everyone does their share, you are not alone.

    I'll throw in one more point, a "militant" exjw who wants to bring down the Watchtower will never help a "poor desperate soul", did one help you? I find these "militants" to be very destructive myself, I was helped by your everyday normal exjw who was more interested in helping me than in getting at the Watchtower through me.

    If your not finding much support then perhaps your strategy is not working, alternatively you may have high expectations of us all.

    I can understand you being disheartned, it isnt encouraging is it? We've all been there I guess.

    Brummie

  • minimus
    minimus

    Hillary, as usual, you have put into words what many of us can not. I do hope that we all can/will eventually get along in our lives and know that in the end we are o.k.

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Dansk,

    Now you've gone and done it!

    Better hold on to your hat, you might just be in for a rough ride here..

    Englishman,

    Popcorn anyone?

  • Dansk
    Dansk
    You must also realize that the best way of freeing the JW’s of the WTS hold on their lives is not by necessarily by public campaigns, but by helping individuals, patiently and over time to see what has happened to them.

    Hillary,

    You are one of the posters I respect most on this list. The problem I have is how do we help those desperate individuals who have no access to the internet to find such forums as this?

    ISP, Latte and one or two others we know will all tell you of a certain individual who has been coming around to my house overjoyed with the fact that after more than 20 years of trying to escape the Watchtower he has at last found someone he can confide in!

    As I said, I don't ignore the importance of other methods besides campaigns - but this poor soul is a perfect example of how desperate he was to find others of a like mind but was unable to because he doesn't possess a computer! He only found out my views because I asked him to do some work for me.

    Hillary, you have mentioned certain individuals like Alan F, etc., in the past and I applaud their actions. However, these people are splintered all over the place, mainly in the USA and the rest of us have no idea of what is really going on. I believe there is room for all types of action, individual and collective. The important thing is to let those without internet access know there are people who can both sympathise and empathise. You and many others have made excellent posts - but they need to be seen by thousands of others. I'd like something set up besides this forum; something reachable by those without a computer.

    Best wishes,

    Dansk

  • Dansk
    Dansk

    Hillary,

    You mount the campiagn and I'll mount the campaign!

    Dansk

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Hi Dansk,

    The past four years my wife and I have helped seven persons 'out' of the WTS, none of whom ever read a thing on the Internet. We were able to do this because as yet we are not DF's or DA'd. So if a person wants to help others the first thing they need to do is to keep the bridges between their world and the WTS world open for as long as they can. This often requires the politician and not the protester to emerge from our own psyche, something it is very hard to do when you have newly discovered issues regarding the WTS.

    When I mention AlanF, FRanz, JanH, Penton etc., I do so because these persons over the years have all made a difference to WTS policy. Many changes that have been introduced by the WTS over the past ten years and that have in some ways helped every JW, have often been from the body of work achieved of these individuals.

    A small group of XJW's that I know of are in regular touch with Government officials regarding many aspects of the WTS, some who are in a position to do so are maintaining files on WTS financial activities. Much work takes place off-board.

    Remember Dansk, while the WTS may strike you as the most obnoxious religion on the planet, it is rather benign compared to many that have not affected you personally. When we manage to place the WTS in a rational position against the backdrop of history and the framework of modern society, it is often the moment of our true liberation from the WTS.

    Best - HS

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Dansk,

    You mount the campiagn and I'll mount the campaign!

    lol...It is very early morning here - have a heart!

    Best - HS

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