by onacruse 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I'm not Mensa...not weird enough
lol... yeah, I almost got scared when I attended the first meeting. But the people are really nice and no one acted like an elitist (that would have turned me off of the meetings big time). So I go once a month just to do something different.
as a jw you 1) have an inside track into the mind of God through gb, 2) are favored and better than the world, 3) have love among yourselves, 4) have accurate knowledge, 5) know the secrets of bible mysteries, 6) know you will be saved while the world is destroyed, 7) are part of the exclusive theocratic arrangement, the with God as head, 8) have joy, peace, etc. 9) have ready made social life and no social life apart from org. 10) know you can trust the ability of fds to dispense truth....and on and on. there is systematic persuasive biblical "evidence" to convince you of the above.
to enjoy the blessings of being jw you must be humble, sheeplike and obedient. as a female it is even more intensified; you are in subjection and subservient.
when i heard about jim jones, heaven's gate, and others i knew the psychology is exactly the same.
i can remember back when i would have these flashes of doubt come into my mind, how terrifying that was and how i immediately dismissed them, shutting them out. how is it possible that your parents whom you trust could raise you this way, so that you have become a faithful follower, to the extent of devoting your entire life to it, sacrificing all material things, sacrificing friends, sacrificing formal education. would your parents lie to you? could these parents whom you trust - brilliant father/mensa mother possibly be wrong? no. just too too scary to entertain those thoughts. when you seem to see error you dismiss it. you deny your own powers of reasoning. and how will you survive without the "ark"?? you are imprisoned by fear.
what wins? fear or intelligence? your mind or theirs?
my father always maintained a spark of individual independence. his drilling acts 17:11 into my brain finally helped to win the battle for me. though, indeed, in was a long, difficult, painful battle.
may there be evermore winners.
best wishes, nowisee
Many here continue to put quarters in their ass-kickin machines
you are are some SICK DUDES- I loved it- this quote is so funny
Hey JT,
Glad you caught that
I actually heard that expression from a friend who attended AA and he gave out that advise to someone.
(Just remember to give me the credit though)
Gumby
Onacruse
But exactly what is the "fight" we have? It's a fight for faith, not for an organization. But faith is a very personal, and very ambiguous, goal, with "unknown" rewards
I believe that Christian faith is simply that God really is good - the fight ensues when we are faced with 'facts' that appear to support that He is otherwise (or that good = bad) - but in the face of all loss, many would rather suffer a living hell than resign to the belief that God is a tyrant, or in the case of jwism, fairly much a beast (allbeit imaginary).
It's hard sometimes to keep the faith that He is good, especially when those who make grand claims of representing Him are not right in what they do.
A reading of Luke 18 - There was a person who put on many faces (facades) and his spirit was such that he didn't have real care for others - his soul, once spouse of the Spirit, was continually led into sin by his desires, and then he was troubled in his soul. Only when it was a real bother did he restrained his desires and do the right thing. Now, if that's what an unjust judge does, won't God help those who ask, and quickly? But even though He would do this, will He later find faith (in His goodness).
I read many people on this board who have seemingly 'given up faith' - but perhaps the truth is that they have kept it - they're simply waiting for the One who is good.
paduan
I had a lawyer tell me one time that the justice system feeds on the ignorance of the people. I think the JW`s feed on that same ignorance. They tried to get me in at a time when my life was at stake because of a health issue, unfortunantly for them I found them out just in time before I was baptized. I noticed in my experience that they were always in the poor areas of our town but only worked the richer areas once in a great while. So here in alike as the justice system we see the dubs working in the same, feeding off ignorance.......
There is no question that we are very affected by our surroundings. Have nothing but witnesses around us, and we didn't know any different.
We can be as smart as we want, but that doesn't change human behavior. We are who we surround ourselves with.
So many things that bring a "smart" witness to the organization. Many times there are other needs that are filled in the hall. A need to feel important, a sense of belonging, etc.
I sincerely believe that for a large majority of people, the initial message of the WTS was appealing to the emotions. We saw beautiful pictures of people living in paradise. They offer freedom from things we dislike such as "someday you will build your own, big beautiful home and you wont have to pay property taxes." We saw pictures of an abundance of food and the end of famine and war. Who, I would like to ask, would'nt desire those things? Their message that they bring to the door appealed to our senses. People in the org constantly talk about how they look forward to the earthly paradise, many expect to live through their "great tribulation". They REALLY WANT ALL THE TIME AND EFFORT THEY PUT IN NOT TO BE IN VAIN. They see themselves as martyrs suffering for a greater cause. I could go on... but I'm hope you understand the point I'm trying to make. How much education or how smart you believe you have is overwritten by desire for better things. I'll leave with this quote I just read today.
Does this sound like anyone you know?
From the book Combating Cult Mind Control (Ray Franz also quoted from this same book in In Search of Christian Freedom)
Another key aspect of thought control involves training members to block out any information which is critical to the group. A persons's typical defense mechanisms are twisted so they fefend the person's new identity against his old former identity. The first line of defense is denial ("What you say isn't happening at all")
Rationlization- (This is happening for a good reason)
Justification ("This is happening because it ought to be")
and Wishful Thinking ("I'd like it to be true so maybe it really is)
If information transmitted.... is perceived as an attack on either the leader, the doctrine or the group, a hostile wall goes up. Members are trained to disbelieve any criticism.
Loyalty and devotion are the most highly respected emotions of all... people are not allowed to talk to each other about anything critical of the leader, doctrine, or organization.
Members must spy on one another and report improper activities or comments to leaders. Most importantly, people are told to avoid contact with ex-members or critics.
Onacruise, I'm really enjoying your thread. I love your picture of the cognitive dissonance.
The scales are tipped so heavily to the side of accomplishment and commitment that we just can't bear the thought that we were carrying the football toward the wrong goal.
This is the human story, isn't it? I don't know of anyone who was born running toward the right goal (except One). We all need a lot of correcting, not just JWs.
You had too many good statements, Outoftheorg, to quote them all. Thanks so much for your perspective on it. I agree totally.
I believe that Christian faith is simply that God really is good - the fight ensues when we are faced with 'facts' that appear to support that He is otherwise (or that good = bad)
I believe this is as well. Actually, the Jews believe this too, but the second point of XNT is that the death of Christ (and his resurretion) give a concrete reason for this faith that God is really good. That helps me with the "fight" part. (I wonder how faithful I'd be if I were a Jew... ! )
I read many people on this board who have seemingly 'given up faith' - but perhaps the truth is that they have kept it - they're simply waiting for the One who is good.
Yes. Those who really do love goodness, they'll eventually find out that God is good. They will recognize Him; keep waiting.
...I have to admit that for the longest time I had been rather prejudiced that JWs were intellectually stunted. When I found this board and read for a few weeks, I was truly amazed (shock and awe!) at how articulate so many posters were. (I think all you posters here are enjoyable to read.) I must say, too, it was a real RELIEF to discover that I was wrong, and so many JWs were intelligent after all! I was delighted to feel challenged by those I'd practically written off. Nice to be humbled!
bebu
I know a lot of JW that are very inteligent, and very suportive to the WT. My old sister is one of then, I also know an hebrew scholar - a walking brain -and also one of my best friends (he knows that I can't no longer believe) he is and elder, but he doesn't shun me. I think that all the post here are right, is an emotional issue, i think that some of them prefer not to study deeply, becasuse they can feel that something is wrong but doesn't wan't to know the truth about "the Truth" this expresion "the Truth" makes me feel mad. I have had doubs since a was very young, and sometimes this makes me feel very ansious, even ill. I think that something was wrong with me and made me fill guilty. But finaly i see that they are the ones that must fill guilty.
Yesterday I asisted to a metting, was the CO, I was late as usualy, (a cant swalow a complete meeting know)
but as soon as I entered the hall, and I listened the words of the CO I said to my self (wrong wrong, absurd, a lie) all his word seems to me a bull-shit, nonsense. I have had I nightmare this night, I was quarreling with my sister, about how she can believe. oh God I feel very depresed and i cant see the light at the end of the tunel.
drwtsn32, by the way, im not a Mensan, I'm member of Cerebrals Society.
Thank you all for your posts. (and please excuse my bad english)
