Being "Smart" will not prevent one from following the WTS

by onacruse 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  onacruse

  This weekend, while Katie and I were at the beach, we both spent a little time reading CoC (no, it wasn't a study LOL ). I came across a comment of Ray about himself that meant a lot to me (4th ed., p. 52):

  ...I can honestly say that I did not favor the disfellowshipping decision made by the [Governing] Body. But that is all that I can say. For when the vote came I conformed to the majority decision. I felt dismayed when the Body assigned me to prepare mateiral in support of the decision, yet I accepted the assignment and wrote it as was desired by the Body...My belief in the organization as God's only agency on earth caused me to do what I did at that time without particularly great qualms of conscience.

  This topic has been discussed in this forum many times before. Perhaps, though, it's a good reminder that our conformity to the WTS was driven by some subtle, and many not-so-subtle, social and psychological pressures that have nothing to do with how smart we are. We could be Einsteins all, and still have ended up fully supporting that organization.

  And, perhaps, another "moral of the story": to the extent that we can look back and be honest with ourselves about why we did what we did, then at least to that extent we can lay down that part of our burden and move on with our healing.

  Craig
• 

  A Paduan

  We could be Einsteins all, and still have ended up fully supporting that organization.

  I disagree - that you could be both at the same time - you could leave and be Einstein or stop being Einstein and join.

  To be Einstein includes promoting empowerment in inquiry - I should think that his desire for truth exceeded his desire for any other gain - being jw is to actively marginalise such an inquiry and exploration, for fear of loss.

  Can you only give up your burden if you aren't in some way to blame? It doesn't matter.
• 

  onacruse

  Paduan, your point is well-taken. I obviously indulged in hyperbole. My point is that it's not "brains" that drive us, when we're immersed in a mind-controlled condition. Oh, yes, we may very well think that our "brains" are fully engaged (I know I certainly thought that), when in fact it's other, "deeper" factors that literally drove us to do what we did.

  Can you only give up your burden if you aren't in some way to blame? It doesn't matter.

  Exactly my point. We did what we did, because at the time it seemed like the right thing to do. Blame is irrelevant; cutting loose the anchors of needless guilt is.

  Craig
• 

  onacruse

  Hi sphere!

  knowledge is the only thing that will save us when Armageddon comes

  Oh yes, the utopian idea of "it's what we know that matters." I fully respect your grandfather's ideals, and perhaps someday the universe will run according to such clear and noble principles. But, in the short run, it's rather more like you say next:

  JW’s believe they are wise scholars,

  Emphasis on "believe." And that's exactly where the delusion (note: not self-delusion) comes into play. RayF was obviously a sharp man, and yet his "knowledge" did not prevent him from conforming to WTS policy.

  Maybe, if I was to restate the title of this thread, it would be "It's Not What you Think, It's How You Feel...that matters"

  Craig
• 

  Buster

  Hi Craig and Katie, hope you guys had a nice weekend.

  "It's Not What you Think, It's How You Feel...that matters"

  Now Craig I think you hit it: the commitment and zeal to follow the WTS is more an emotional drive than it is an intellectual one. Perhaps it doesn't matter how smart one is, we all have emotional needs. I think the emotional needs that drive an otherwise intelligent and introspective person to follow the Society run the full gammit. Some need the surety that comes with the dictatorial dogma, as well as the bliss of not having to make a decision that comes with it. Others need a smaller pond where they can feel like a big fish.

  But I remember being taught to look down on all things worldly. It made me distrusful and scornful. That is how the WTS hobbles otherwise emotionally sufficient people. I think we have a lot of those here - those that broke away and can't believe they ever tolerated that crap.

  Funny how none of that has anything to do with intelligence.
• 

  outoftheorg

  I believe now, that even some very intelligent people, believed and followed the wtbts teachings, because of the following.

  All of their publications included statements, that led people to believe, that somehow, the wbts was superior in their knowledge of the bible, history, and Gods will, than we or anyone else could ever hope to be.

  The publications used to convert new comers and in fact all publications kept repeatedly pronouncing this thought.

  Those of us raised in it, were even more firmly indoctrinated in this thought process.

  I can recall being disturbed by some change in doctrine, or something else and trying to find biblical evidence to support this and giving up. With the thought, that I was unable to discern these deep truths and then accept this teaching, as "from the learned ones and their superior knowledge".

  We can explore complicated psychological theories and other reasons. But I think it was as simple as what I stated here.

  Once we are caught in the belief that "we are unable to understand" but "they with superior knowledge are to be believed" we are trapped.

  At that point we cease to think for ourselves. It becomes obvious to us, that we are unable to grasp this teaching, ( really because it makes no sense) but we deny that it is nonsense and accept what the superior ones want us to believe. Could we call this, induced denial??

  The use of labels, such as a letter from wbts is a LETTER FROM MOTHER- or THE FAITHFULL AND DISCRETE SLAVE- the GOVERNING BODY- JEHOVAHS ORGANIZATION and others tend to support this thought of a superior organization.

  To me it appears to be a subtle, well thought out and executed plan, to exercise power over people and their beliefs. A CULT period.

  Of course this is easier and more quickly accepted ,by less educated or intelligent people. But I have seen it work, on the educated and intelligent ones also.

  Outoftheorg
• 

  onacruse

  Oh, yes, Buster and outoftheorg, you both pick up quite strongly on what I'm driving at here. Before I go to bed, I'd like to highlight a couple of your comments:

  Buster:

  Some need the surety that comes with the dictatorial dogma, as well as the bliss of not having to make a decision that comes with it.

  Yes indeed, the "I can peacefully lay my head on the pillow tonight because I did what I was told is right" mentality. How many billions of people live out their entire life feeling that way?

  I think we have a lot of those here - those that broke away and can't believe they ever tolerated that crap.

  I'm one of those people, for sure. And if it helps anyone else to know that, I'll yell it from the rooftops:

  I WAS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE!

  "GET OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE."

  outoftheorg:

  Those of us raised in it, were even more firmly indoctrinated in this thought process.

  That is, indeed, another critical dimension, as many others here have observed. But, being raised "in it" perhaps gives us a clearer picture, after we've extricated ourselves, of just how pernicious that religion is. It invaded our soul, perverted our minds, twisted our lives. Leads to your next:

  At that point we cease to think for ourselves.

  And all along the way, thinking to ourselves that we are thinking for ourselves. What a pathetic irony.

  Thank you all for sharing. This is a topic I would gladly share with my great-great-grandchildren.

  Craig
• 

  bikerchic

  Something sphere said made me think, the word Bible is missing from her statements at least in the way I was taught as a JW,

  "Knowledge, Bible Knowledge is the only thing that will save us when Armageddon comes."

  Also,

  "JW’s believe they are wise Bible scholars, they believe they know more about the Bible then any other people on earth."

  and I agree with you sphere,

  being a JW sure has a way of squashing your intelligence.

  except for this I just saw and posted on another thread:

  One Jehovah's Witness friend of mine mentioned not long ago that he had never completed college, but that he felt that he had learned many college-level items by reading Awake! over the course of his life.

  Man that makes me want to puke! I would be a wealthy lady if I had a dollar for everytime I've heard that over the years.

  outoftheorg you bring up some really good points especially,

  Those of us raised in it, were even more firmly indoctrinated in this thought process.

  can recall being disturbed by some change in doctrine, or something else and trying to find biblical evidence to support this and giving up. With the thought, that I was unable to discern these deep truths and then accept this teaching, as "from the learned ones and their superior knowledge".

  We can explore complicated psychological theories and other reasons. But I think it was as simple as what I stated here.

  Once we are caught in the belief that "we are unable to understand" but "they with superior knowledge are to be believed" we are trapped.

  So true, how sad to me that while I was "IN" I couldn't see the forest for the trees, now that I'm out it's plain as the nose on my face. I just wish there was a way to reach my relatives that are still "IN". I feel like I'm visiting a foreign country when I'm around them now. It really drives home to me what a cult I was in and what Craig said is so true,

  it's a good reminder that our conformity to the WTS was driven by some subtle, and many not-so-subtle, social and psychological pressures that have nothing to do with how smart we are. We could be Einsteins all,

  man I'm so glad I'm out!

  Buster I just noticed your picture/avatar, is that you when you were a youngin? How cute! And yes we did have a nice time at the beach! Hope to see you next month at the Meet Up.

  Katie (who has to start working on making some great,great grandchildren)
• 

  logansrun

  There is a great chapter in the new version of Michael Shermer's "Why People Believe Weird Things" entitled, "Why Smart People Believe Weird Things." Basically, an intelligent person is very capable of holding some pretty whacked out ideas because she/he has a great ability to convolute the argument and make it sound reasonable, even though it isn't. Throw in some social pressures and you've got a recipe for some intelligent people belonging to a cult like the JWs (or Mormons, Fundamentalist Christians, etc.).

  A good example: Fred Franz. I believe it was in CoC that one GB member reportedly said that FF "could rationalize anything."

  Bradley
• 

  drwtsn32

  I agree with the topic of this thread. Being inside the organization seems to suppress intelligence. I guess that's one result of being involved in a cult. I'm flat out embarrassed by how I behaved both socially and intellectually while I was in the organization. I was simply unaware of my behavior until the final year or two of my involvement. I started to "fix" things but that resulted in me becoming a "weak" Witness and finally leaving.

  One of the first things I did when I left the organization was join Mensa. Anyone else a member by chance?