Why Do Intelligent People Believe in God?

by cantleave 56 Replies latest jw friends

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries
    Did your God spontaneously come from nothing then? If not then how did he get there? Your 'logicalness' creates a lot more questions than it answers.

    Depends if my God is a biological life form, immortal, spirit, another dimension, or human and we are all a simulation, etc.

    My 'logicalness' goes w/ the truth. It would create more questions. But pretend that humans invent AI, and eventually robotics take over the planet and all humans die. OR humans create AI, and drop some off on another planet and they have the ability to replicate themselves or create others. Millions of years later after the original ones are gone, they are looking into their origins. They are trying to determine how they came about and with no evidence of us biological lifeforms on their planet, they refuse to entertain the idea they were created and looking into how they spontaneously appeared as well. If we came about by intelligent design, who cares if it creates more questions, we'll never get the truth of the matter if we dismiss it because it will ' create more questions'.

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim
    I have to venture and say that intelligent people believe in God as emotional crutch. Maybe with religion in general. So fearful of their eventual end on this Earth.
  • Alive!
    Alive!

    Did your God spontaneously come from nothing then? If not then how did he get there? Your 'logicalness' creates a lot more questions than it answers.
    Excellent - I'm all for questions :-) That's when things can get really exciting.If I question why are there so many pointers toward creative evidence, then, even if I haven't found the answer, I'm still willing to 'search' or say 'as yet I don't know how and why' It's really OK to suspect there is a purposeful creative force - and it's OK to keep the question door open!It doesn't make you a weak minded fool - honest!!


  • cantleave
    cantleave

    That video is absolute crap.

    It's always nice to get feedback, whether positive or negative.


    What do you consider intelligent?

    There are many types of intelligence. Take me for example. I am slightly autistic, and have little social intelligence -but am a logical thinker. I am not a great politician but understand enough about internal politics at work to spend as much time away from colleagues as possible. I certainly have no ability to do sports (that's a type of intelligence) but I can make excellent technical presentations and have the ability to absorb knowledge on all sorts of subjects.

    I have a 130 IQ (tested several times professionally throughout my life), my highest scores aside from knowledge were on puzzle, problem solving, and critical thinking.

    You should see my score - it will make your eyes water. My problem solving and critical thinking are pretty good too. See we have found common ground :)

    I also used to be a programmer.

    I used to be a JW and stayed one for 42 years.

    honors degree that included religious studies and basic biology, genetics, astronomy, etc.

    In my case a first degree in Chemistry, and Masters in Business Administration as well rather vast general knowledge. This mutual bragging is great fun but I am not quite getting your point.

    An IQ can be quite broad...

    Not the way it is measured for MENSA. The tests do not measure things like Social Intelligence, Emotional Intelligence, Sporting Prowess, political astuteness etc. - all of which are signs of intelligence as stated above.

    An 'intelligent' person, if considering one a 'thinker' vs a 'feeler' wouldn't still believe in God because of social pressure or emotional attachment.

    Obviously your education did not extend to psychology! There have been some great social experiments that conflict with your statement. One of them was a bit of fun, where Derren Brown managed to get an Atheist, working in the field of genetics, to feel a deep religious experience. Look it up - its brilliant!

    The lack of critical thinking is very evident when they as many others claim that believe in God must mean acceptance or belief in ANY religion on this planet.

    The point of the video is show how social conditioning allows ridiculous ideas such as religious belief to take hold in society. The original belief in god was not ridiculous because it arose from early man trying to make sense of a chaotic world. You could say it was an early hypothesis to explain what seemed unexplainable. However many of the things that were back then "mysterious" are now fully understood. Gods were not required to make thunder, cause Earthquakes or create disease (why in your world did an intelligent designer create disease EOM?)

    Very narrow minded thinking. Even though God is a religious term, if you take the concept then there need not be any religious ties to it. God also is understand in many different ways throughout beliefs and religions,

    As the video explained religiosity was created around the god construct to reinforce adherence to it. The evolution of non-religious to religious believer is pretty well summed up in the video. Is it not possible that people believe but show no religiosity are a counter reaction to the increasing intrusiveness, hypocrisy and outright corruption of the religious systems that arose?

    the only exact specific is our life is the result of 'intelligent design'.......Why do I believe in God? First, my only 100% certain belief is "intelligent design".

    What is this intelligent design of which you speak? Are you saying your God used evolution to carry out his / her designs? Are you denying evolution (I really hope a person with a 130 IQ has a basic understanding of this subject).

    I am not 100% certain what form this intelligent design is from, where they are, if still around, etc. Having been a programmer, researching into AI, genetics, etc., I see intelligent design in all life.

    No you see something that resembles design that arose by the process of natural selection

    I am even considering learning programming again to try to create AI since faster computer processors, memory steadily rising in capacity but shrinking in physical size, cloud computing, camera, audio devices, and the new industrial revolution all have the right conditions to begin to develop this technology.

    That's great - I am building a world wide distributor network to sell speciality ingredients for the cosmetic industry, hoping to make serious amounts of money and say "screw you" to the WTS cult. Neither my work ambition or yours has anything to do with this thread.

    What is my take on life? Like computer programs, we can see the code and see the programs.

    I hate computer programmes but my son who is even more on the Autism spectrum than me loves them.

    But without the platform and appropriate software, we cannot create our own programs from scratch. Some intelligent lifeforce designed life, using DNA as the language. Designed it to replicate, and to adapt to its environment. The adaptations are the evolution we see.

    The platform on which life is based are self replicating chemicals. Chemicals do what chemicals do - without any direction. It just so happens that nucleic acids build protein structures.

    None of those things has anything to do with social pressure or how I was raised. It doesn't tell me what to expect when I die. It doesn't tell me the nature of God, spirit or physical or something else.

    It doesn't tell the colour of Unicorns, the nature of fairies or the size of Russel's teapot either.

    It doesn't tell you the colour of a unicorn's eyes, or the sexual behaviour of fairies, or the exact orbit of Russel's teapot (or is it a cup?)

    If man can ever replicate instead of by trillions of random chances for a cell life to just emerge, then group up to develop heart, brain, lungs, kidneys separate from each other or spontaneous at the same time, and into other life forms, then I might change my mind. If all those things w/ DNA developed by chance over millions or billions of years due to random chemical mixes, etc, then surely with man intervening and mixing the right things at the right time it should happen a lot quicker.

    Why should it have happened a lot quicker? The scientific method doesn't work to time frames. It uses evidence elicited from carefully constructed experiments. The time required....is the time required!

    And if all the varieties of life all happened by chance too, then we should be able to design and create customized life forms as well. (That may soon be possible w/ genetic engineering, but the key is to do it all from scratch and not use anything existing).

    Who says that we won't be able design and create customized life from scratch in the future? The fact we can't now doesn't mean we will never be able to. Just because we don't at present know what the secrets of abiogenesis are, doesn't mean we never will. And whilst we don't know, we shouldn't be jumping to the conclusion that it is has to be supernatural - in the same way that we now see pestilence and disasters as entirely natural...now we that we understand them.

  • cantleave
    cantleave
    Luther bertrand
    However, admittedly the irreducible complexity argument does make me wonder if some kind of organizing feature is out their that is indeed intelligent.

    A completely debunked piece of creationist propaganda playing to ignorance.

  • theliberator
    theliberator

    Atheist vs Believer. Has nothing to do with intelligence. Only perspective. There are only so many worldviews. We pick and choose. I personally agree with Darwin.

    The question of whether there exists a Creator and Ruler of the Universe has been answered in the affirmative by some of the highest intellects that have ever existed.”

    –Charles Darwin, the founder of evolutionary biology, as cited in his book Descent of Man.

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel
    Cofty » That makes sense to you because you don't know the first thing about evolution.
    You have confused logical with simplistic.

    Another two-line response with no substance. Sigh!

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel
    Why do people quote from Wikipedia? It's not accepted as a valid source. It is a great tool and at the very bottom are the actual references.

    It's accepted on some things. I've seen things I didn't agree with that are in established sources that are just plain inaccurate. I'm a big Douglas MacArthur fan and have read and talked to many people, including his fiercest detractors, and yet some of the things published about MacArthur today (and taught in war colleges) are completely apocraphal. So care is needed everywhere.

  • Landy
    Landy
    we'll never get the truth of the matter if we dismiss it because it will ' create more questions'.

    How to contradict yourself in one easy sentence!

    I don't have all the answers. Science doesn't have all the answers. Lots of science's answers create more questions. That is A Good Thing. I'm quiet happy to accept that we don't have all the answers yet. You're quite happy to ascribe the unknowns to God.

    If you'd lived a thousand years ago you'd be out sacrificing goats so the the rain god will allow rain to feed your crops. In another thousand years people will look back on current day believers in tne same way we look on those who worshipped in ignorance a thousand years ago.

  • talesin
    talesin

    Faith is largely an emotional choice, based on feelings, and supported by cultural lore and religion-based power structures. You can't argue with that And, imho, you shouldn't. It's a lose-lose proposition, and the old adage is true 'you get more flies with honey, than you do with vinegar'. Present facts when appropriate, and let people come to their own reality.

    Until someone is emotionally ready to consider the evidence, arguing with them is as productive as 'talking to a wall'.

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