Immigration is not what you think it is...for a reason

by TerryWalstrom 36 Replies latest jw friends

  • Simon

    The notion that everything was peaceful and tranquil before white people came to North America is simply untrue. Constant wars, slaughter, rape, mass executions, human sacrifice - that was the North America that existed when the first Europeans arrived.

    There was no genocide, it's all based on myths perpetuated by idiots who think they have some reason to be guilty for being alive when they do not.

    Unlike any other 'conquerors' in history, the white Europeans didn't slaughter everyone, they negotiated land and made treaties. They introduced all the glorious inventions that they brought with them - things like medicine because while it looks glamorous and spiritual in a movie, dancing round someone and banging a drum doesn't really help someone who is dying of a treatable illness.

    As it is, they unknowingly introduced some new diseases that the native population didn't have immunity to (just like happened to Europe when they were invaded) but the early reports from settlers indicate that there were already outbreaks of serious diseases. When your culture is a subsistence one, you are on the brink all the time and it didn't take much to cause serious harm to the population.

    It's an interesting subject if you research it and look at the population sizes. Native Americans have one of the highest rates of people marrying outside their ethnicities - they weren't slaughtered, they married and bred outside of the tribes as can be seen from genetic research.

    Other things we introduced: law and order and a justice system. And while some things were a mistake, it was a relatively short time between white people taking part in slavery and the abolitionist movement starting to put and end to it because enough people could see that it was wrong. As always, the democrats obstructed progress. But no other culture ever did that - the slave trade elsewhere was happening long before white people took part and continued long after they stopped and slaves were treated far worse.

    But hey, those white people ...

  • LoveUniHateExams
    * thought experiement, I know you're not personally American - ok ... about your family leaving in their stead...after all, like patriarch's kids *you're the child of immigrants too - but my family would be US citizens, i.e. they would have the legal right to live in the US.

    Illegal immigrants don't have that right, even if they settle down and have kids.

    I'm not advocating for whole families to leave - if the kids wanna stay, fine. But if their dad or granddad was an illegal immigrant then the US government has the right to remove him. If people wanna bitch about broken families then the whole family moving is the only practical solution ...

  • SAHS

    Imagine for a moment that you own a little log cabin somewhere up north in the state of Alaska. One day, while you weren’t home, a couple of young hikers who were lost, starving, and nearly freezing to death come across your cabin. One of them breaks a window by the door to let him and his friend enter for some shelter from the cold wind. They eat a couple of cookies they find, and maybe even start a little fire in a wood-burning stove. But once they have been revived, they clean up after themselves and even leave a few dollars on the kitchen table for their troubles. Now, who would even consider having them arrested and prosecuted if they have even one empathetic bone in their body? If anything, you, as the owner of that cabin, would no doubt readily offer to make and serve them at least some chicken noodle soup and peanut butter sandwiches to ensure their complete revival.

    You have to be careful here about treating desperate (“illegal”) immigrants as some kind of vermin to be quickly disposed of. Don’t forget that there are many such people – families, including women and children – who, through no fault of their own, are simply trying to escape a sociopolitical environment which is toxic and morbidly dangerous to their survival. For example: there are people (families) from Mexico having to escape from the extremely brutal violence of the powerful drug cartels; there are people (families) trying to escape from the oppressive communist regime in Cuba; and then you also have people (families) in abject desperation trying to flee from countries (“shithole countries,” as so elegantly described by President Donald Trump) which are ignominiously plagued by wars and civil strife – “ethnic cleansing” – such as the Rohingya from Myanmar or the Muslims in Syria.

    Now, just put yourself in the place of such poor refugees desperately trying to flee brutal and inhumane persecution. Imagine that it is YOUR family forced to undergo such a nightmarish scenario. Just imagine that for a second.

    “LoveUniHateExams”: “Throughout history most, if not all, ethnic groups colonised other areas.”

    Well, let’s not forget about the Christian crusades and the Catholic inquisition. Our “kind” here in the western civilization has certainly not been immune to such evils.

  • LongHairGal


    Your post is very touching, but that does not justify illegal immigration. And, we are not talking about a handful of people here. We are talking about hordes of them. And quoting ancient history and the evils of the Crusades doesn’t give anybody the right to think this.

    And while many people are trying to escape from dangerous conditions in their home countries, sadly some are bringing those very things with them! And I don’t care ‘they aren’t all like that’. If they are illegal, they don’t belong here in the first place.

  • Simon
    Imagine for a moment that you own a little log cabin somewhere up north in the state of Alaska ...

    Great story. Except the hikers travelled thousands of miles, from the cabin they already had and paid criminal gangs to get them to your cabin because they heard yours had nicer stuff than theirs and you didn't have much security.

    Build a wall. Deport the criminals. Stop with this nonsense that they are all super nice law abiding people - have a proper process so you can decide who is and who isn't.

  • Simon
    let’s not forget about the Christian crusades

    You mean the defensive wars launched after centuries of attacks and enslavement by Muslim invaders?

    Mustn't talk about the Muslim aggressors though eh? It's all those Christians fault ...

    you also have people (families) in abject desperation trying to flee from countries (“shithole countries,” as so elegantly described by President Donald Trump) which are ignominiously plagued by wars and civil strife – “ethnic cleansing” – such as the Rohingya from Myanmar or the Muslims in Syria.

    Except they are not the ones coming to America (you seem confused about Geography). Most of those who do are coming because they are economic migrants. Their countries are shitholes because their cultures are shitty. That's why it's important to make sure they leave their shit at home - if they genuinely want to benefit from and contribute to society then they apply through the proper mechanism.

    There's no way to justify it - make it fairer and easier for people to be accepted legally and it's better for everyone, how is that a difficult concept? How can illegal immigration be the most fair and not just benefit criminals?

  • OnTheWayOut

    First of all, saying that immigration is not what I think it is, then telling me what YOU think it is.
    I find that totally arrogant.

    Second of all, your over-simplification of the whole matter is way off the mark of what "immigration" is.
    I would be better off with a dictionary definition.

    Even understanding that you are trying to condemn "illegal" immigration with your sorry example, you remove the sympathetic human factor and act like the person sneaking in is trying to get into "YOUR" bedroom instead of recognizing that we know most are escaping a bad way of life to find a better one.

    I don't disagree with tough restrictions on immigration, but telling me I don't know what it is- sorry pal. If you invalidate my thoughts, then I am free to invalidate yours.

  • Simon

    Starting the clock on Christian / Muslim conflict at the Crusades is like how people count Islamic Terrorism from 10/11 instead of 9/11. Convenient, but not really telling the whole story.

    And Muslims being killed in Syria is due to Muslims so stop trying desperately to paint Islam as the victim. Myanmar is a bad situation but I honestly don't care anymore, one thing you can guarantee is that if or when they are a majority anywhere they will start slaughtering others.

    Kill or be killed, it's what Islam wants.

  • Simon

    I am totally sympathetic to those refugees who are in genuine need, confusing economic migrants and criminals with those does nothing to help them and a lot to hurt them. Those jumping the fence are taking the places that should be given to others.

  • resolute Bandicoot
    resolute Bandicoot

    Your speaking my language Simon.

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