This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty 496 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Saethydd

  For me, it basically comes down to probability.

  Is it more probable that there is a God out there who cares enough about humanity to specially create us, but not to shield us from harm in our infancy? (Both as a species and as individuals) Or is it more likely that we are the rare result of the natural forces of the Universe?

  Is it likely that the supernatural events recorded in the Bible, which have no confirmed modern events to parallel them, actually happened? Or is it more likely that they are simply another set of exaggerated stories that might be based very loosely on real events?

  My belief in the supernatural, and by extension God is set at neutral and leans towards skeptical disbelief until such a time as I am given clear and objective evidence to the contrary. The fact that the state of Universe and humanity doesn't reflect what I would logically expect from a loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful creator merely reinforces that position, it is not the entire basis for it.
• 

  slimboyfat

  You are very clearly changing the goal posts.

  Your first post claimed the Bible should supply useful information not available to people at the time.

  Failing to give any good reason why God should meet this standard you have set, instead you talk about the Bible being written by ignorant goat herders. (Familiar new atheist trope)

  If you are not willing to back up your original assertion that the Bible should contain useful information not known at the time. Where is the justification for the new assertion that God could not inspire a book that conforms to a contemporary conception of the world?

  You have asserted God would not do that. What is your evidence?
• 

  John_Mann

  I already talked with you about the problem of (natural) evil.

  It's the hardest Problem of theism.

  But like parents submitting children under painful medical treatment, sometimes apparent evil is needed for a greater good. We don't know the big picture.

  The Bible is a codified book.

  Outside Catholic Church it doesn't make any sense. So you're in the right path when you say Bible is nonsense (because you take the Sola Scriptura approach).

  The Bible is all about salvation of the soul.

  Someday your Will will be enlighted by the Grace of God and your intellect will understand the reality of God.

  Just feed your intellect with more views and concepts of God. Try to read about the Catholic and/or Jewish faith. Forget about the Sola Scriptura nonsense.
• 

  cofty

  John_Mann - Please read the OP again. Most of it does not rest on the veracity of scripture.

  The record of the Roman Catholic Church is one of the most compelling arguments against christianity but that is another topic.

  I already talked with you about the problem of (natural) evil.

  Interesting that I can't recall any of that conversation.Succinctly what was your most compelling point?
  
• 

  John_Mann

  
  

  It's the hardest Problem of theism.

  
  But like parents submitting children under painful medical treatment, sometimes apparent evil is needed for a greater good. We don't know the big picture.
• 

  cofty

  So murdering millions of innocent children in natural disasters is for the greater good is it?

  What an evil death cult Catholicism is!
• 

  John_Mann

  I don't think natural disasters are equal to murder.

  The material world works in a very random way.

  And we believe in immortal souls that are not affected by death.
• 

  cofty

  The material world works in a very random way.

  Not to your god it doesn't. It works precisely as he designed it to work.
  
  
• 

  Ruby456

  the commonsense view would be that genocide is different from natural disaster

  natural disaster for the theist and for the atheist means that he/she has to be inventive to make use of whatever contingencies come to hand - as when organisms embraced oxygen - a deadly killer substance - and it worked. Most religious myths preserve this kernel of truth/reality - common sense at work or thinking outside the box?
• 

  John_Mann

  Not to your god it doesn't. It works precisely as he designed it to work.

  As usual you have a calvinist view of God. This concept of God is ridiculous and I'm an atheist to this concept of God too.

  Catholics follow molinism and not calvinism.

  And you always mix up concepts of nature, will and intellect of God.

  You have a very poor concept of God. You think God is some Marvel's superhero.

  There are (natural) truths that are independent of God's will and these truths comes directly from the God's nature and are the same in all possible worlds (including the ones in your dreams).

  If you want to be a better critic you must study about molinism first.