This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty 496 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • cofty

    David - I suspect you are taking refuge in Deism.

    There is a very clear distinction between deism and theism - Jewish or Christian.

    My disbelief is a very well informed one that covers theism in all its guises.

  • David_Jay

    Deism is rejected by Judaism. As the Jewish Encyclopedia itself states at the end of its entry on the subject: "Judaism is theistic, not deistic."

  • pale.emperor

    I remember as i was trying to fade i said to an awake JW who cant leave:

    "If i were God I'd make it very simple for my little creations to know if i existed and that i was the one true God. For one thing i would speak to them. Secondly I'd say "if you let me look after you, you will never grow old and die. (Notice that I didn't say worship, I'm not an egomaniac, i said "if you let me look after you""). Those who didn't want to let me look after them, well they'd see the results of that. You'd have my people in health, happiness and prosperity. And those who reject me living dull lives. But anyone could approach me and let me care for them."

    Im no genius, but to me that just made more sense. And Jehovah never thought of it.

  • David_Jay


    And that illustrates a marked difference between Jewish theism and Christian concepts of God. Christians expect there to be more than this life or that God has to prove his love for his creation by guaranteeing happiness and/or good health.

    Some Jews don't accept the concept of life after death or that unhappiness disproves the possibility of God. Even those who do accept the concept of the World to Come do not focus their lives upon it. Judaism teaches to live focused on now and to worship God not because it will get you anything but because God has already brought you to life in this world.

    In the end, it is okay to reject all forms of theism, even the Jewish concepts. It matters only to me that all people, including atheists, are allowed to hold their views with dignity and without constant threat and challenge from those who feel they must convert or judge them wrong.

  • WhatshallIcallmyself

    Vidqun -

    I wonder if you are aware of the magnitude of the forces that would be required to 'wobble' the Earth as you seem to be suggesting. Suffice it to say, if what you seem to be suggesting were true then we would be dead, along with everything else.

  • Vidqun

    WhatshallIcallmyself, it happened in the past and seems to be happening again. And you're right, a full magnetic reversal could mean an extinction level event for the earth as well as biblical-scale floods. See this website for additional information: I personally don't think that it will be that bad. The Bible calls it "the great tribulation," from which there will be survivors. Nevertheless, I believe we are in for a rough ride.

  • cofty

    Please let's not derail the thread with pseudo-science.

  • John_Mann

    God will remains a mystery because we are in a kind of test.

    In this time we need free will. Free will needs total privacy. That's why nobody can read our thoughts.

    Now in heaven nobody has free will because they saw God directly. At the time you see God there's a transformation and you can't be a human anymore.

    There's no free will if you can see God. Like if you have to choose between a marble palace or a piece of chalk.

    Jews say that the existence of God in this universe it's like the subtle flavor of wine left in a glass. That's enough for the game of life.

    God can be reached through philosophy or/and intuition.

    God is not a scientific experiment.

    Search your intuition and you will know.

    Try to develop your intuition doing some art.

  • cofty

    But John_Mann your response totally ignores every single point I made in my OP...

    Isn't it odd how often theists do that? They answer the question they wish you had asked rather then the more awkward one you actually asked.

  • John_Mann

    You are very concerned with problems of the material world.

    God is about the life of the soul.

    He chose us from mud.

    Think about your ability to conceive the infinity, justice and beauty.

    Don't think about evolutionary survival or the Bible. Christianity existed for almost 400 years without the Bible and Jesus didn't wrote anything.

    Don't see the Bible as an idol (like the Protestants). And don't see science as and idol too. Science is just a tool and it's not the Thor's hammer.

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