This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty 496 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  slimboyfat

  Natural laws are themselves part of the things that exist. So how can they be within themselves or explain themselves?

  Uniquely miraculous in the true sense of a miracle being something outside of nature's laws
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  LoveUniHateExams

  Natural laws are miraculous? Really?!

  Unexplained doesn't mean miraculous ...
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  Fisherman

  cofty all your posts about God require that God qualifies and complies with your morality.
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  Vidqun

  Disarmed: A biology professor was questioned by one of his Bible Belt students, “What would it take for you to believe there is a god, him coming down here and kicking you in the ass?” The professor simply replied, “Yep, that would do it.”

  Yes, Disarmed, it seems that that is what is going to happen. Everything in mounting up and I expect some spectacular things to happen this year already. That’s enough for me to believe. Cofty, if you see the following things happening, exactly as prophesied, would you then believe?

  Prophecy:

  Daniel warned of an impending “great tribulation” (Dan. 12:1). Jesus also referred to the Great Tribulation. If the days were not cut short, no flesh would be saved (Matt. 24:21, 22; Mark 13:20). Haggai warns: “Moreover, the LORD who rules over all says: ‘In just a little while I will once again shake the sky[1] and the earth, the sea and the dry ground’” (Hag. 2:6 NET; cf. Hebr. 12:26-29).

  Luke (21:25, 26 NET) gives us an idea of what’s in store: “And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth nations will be in distress, anxious over the roaring of the sea and the surging waves. People will be fainting from fear and from the expectation of what is coming on the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.” The opening of the sixth seal in the book of Revelation adds the necessary detail:

  Then I looked when the Lamb opened the sixth seal, and a huge earthquake[2] took place; the sun became as black as sackcloth made of hair, and the full moon became blood red; and the stars[3] in the sky fell to the earth like a fig tree dropping its unripe figs when shaken by a fierce wind. The sky was split apart like a scroll being rolled up[4], and every mountain and island was moved from its place.[5]

  Then the kings of the earth, the very important people, the generals, the rich, the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the one who is seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, because the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”[6] Rev. 6:12-17 NET.

  Evidence:

  1) Increased earthquake activity: For up-to-date information, download Earthquake 3D Free Edition.

  2) Volcanic activity: Approximately 36 active volcanoes worldwide (https://earthquakes.volcanodiscovery.com/).

  3) Increased meteor activity (http://www.amsmeteors.org/meteor-showers/2017-meteor-shower-list/).
  

  4) Poleshift: Recent changes in magnetic north. Magnetic north use to move 15 km/year. Now it does 15 km per day. For those that notice such things, sun is not coming up where it use to. The earth is 25 degrees or more out of kilter.
  

  5) Climate change: This is not only occurring on earth only but to all the planets in our solar system.

  6) Major underground shelters for the elite, especially in Europe, Russia and USA.

  [1] Or “the heavens.” The same Hebrew word, shamayim, may be translated “sky” or “heavens” depending on the context. Although many English versions translate the term as “heavens” here, the other three elements present in this context (earth, sea, dry ground) suggest “sky” is in view (see NET footnote).

  [2] On the one hand, this might not be a literal earthquake, but earth-shaking events. It is unlikely that the kings and important people would want to hide underground for protection after a big earthquake. On the other hand, a mega-quake in and along the Ring of Fire could trigger dormant volcanoes. The ash of more than five of these erupting volcanoes could block out the sun, causing a mini ice-age.

  [3] This could refer to meteors. On the star s. μάγος 1.) Falling fr. heaven in the last tribulation Mt 24:29; Mk 13:25; Rv 6:13 (all three Is 13:9-11; cp. Artem. 2, 36 p. 137, 15 καταπίπτοντες εἰς γῆν οἱ ἀστέρες). Other pass. that associate pers. w. celestial bodies—a practice going back largely, as some hold, to Babyl. apocalyptic—are 8:11, 12; 12:1, 4, which also contain the word ἀ.—ἀστέρες πλανῆται wandering stars (Cicero, De Nat. Deor. of stars ‘quae falso vocantur errantes’), perh. meteors, typical of dissident teachers Jd 13 (cp. En 18:14; also chap. 21). See BDAG.

  [4] Isaiah reminds us that God’s indignation is against all nations and national groups (cf. Is. 34:1-4).

  [5] This describes major disruptions caused by a pole shift (cf. Is. 24:1, 19, 20; Jer. 4:23-26).

  [6] God’s wrath is directed at all the inhabitants of the earth, especially the proud and the arrogant (cf. Is. 2:10-12, 17, 19-22 NET).
• 

  cofty

  The bible really would contain prophecies that could be verified using objective historical evidence. It wouldn't be necessary to rip verses out of context and interpret ambiguous phrases to try to make details fit post hoc.. - Cofty

  Daniel warned of an impending “great tribulation” (Dan. 12:1). Jesus also referred to the Great Tribulation. If the days were not cut short, no flesh would be saved (Matt. 24:21, 22; Mark 13:20). Haggai warns: “Moreover, the LORD who rules over all says: ‘In just a little while I will once again shake the sky[1] and the earth, the sea and the dry ground’” (Hag. 2:6 NET; cf. Hebr. 12:26-29). - Vidqun

  Vidqun, thank you for illustrating my point so eloquently.
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  cofty

  Vidqun - The following is perhaps the most outrageous lie in history of the internet...

  For those that notice such things, sun is not coming up where it use to. The earth is 25 degrees or more out of kilter.
  

  This is what happens when you are committed to seeing the fulfillment of "prophecy" at any cost.
  
  
• 

  Vidqun

  Objective historical evidence points to the past, however, historical reality would point to the here and now. Another prophetic fulfillment to look out for, is this one. I believe the first few trumpets of Revelation point to man's destructive activities on the earth. E.g., the Fukushima reactors are pouring radioactive poison into the Pacific Ocean at an alarming rate, on their way to poison the West Coast of the United States. Unfortunately all the oceans are connected, so these are going to poison all the oceans of the earth if not capped (cf. Rev. 8:7-13; cf. 11:18). I know, a little imagination is needed here, but it is accurate nonetheless. We'll see, my favorite saying: "Time will tell."
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  cofty

  Vidqun - Please justify this statement...

  "For those that notice such things, sun is not coming up where it use to. The earth is 25 degrees or more out of kilter."
  

  
  
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  Vidqun

  Cofty, not only is the earth out of kilter. Recently we have experienced an earth wobble, where the sun shines in through your window, and then the next day it doesn't come close. If you look up at the stars, you will notice some of the constellations are not there where you saw them last night.

  Try this video for size. Prep Aussie demonstrates it for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKqyqaGI9_Y

  His somewhat long winded, but the information is relevant. Here's another one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM7hsV86aQA
• 

  David_Jay

  If the god of christian theism did exist a lot of simple things would just make more sense.--Cofty.

  Thanks for saying this.

  This could be the problem. You might have made or have been handed a golden calf of sorts and been expecting it to be this great God that Christianity claims it is, and when it doesn't live up to the Christian claims you declare: "See, there is no God." But a golden calf, even if it be made out of the most precious stone, and even if you aren't the one who made it, is still an idol. It was never God to begin with.

  I will not argue that you leave behind atheism for theism. As a Jew I find this a ridiculous demand and, to be honest, against my religion to think atheism is something bad. As long as you are a moral person and you do not worship false deities then you are perfect just as you are. In fact, by being an atheist and speaking about it to others you may be helping turn others from worshipping false gods. In Jewish theology you are neither required to be a Jew or a theist to have a place in the World to Come, you need only be just and moral.

  The God of Abraham according to Jews is not something that can be fully grasped by the human mind, defined by religious doctrine, nor guaranteed by all the faith a man can muster. In fact, the word "God" was merely borrowed by the Jews to describe what they understand to be the Great Cause of the universe. Because people have come to accept that a deity is the highest being that must exist, then we use that word to describe the Great Cause. But in reality that are no such things as gods.

  Our God is not a being that exists floating around somewhere in heaven, like the fairytale interpretations Gentiles have stuck to our ancient legends and traditional fables with moral lessons. Prophecies are not ambiguous phrases that can only by understood "in the light of Christ" and have to deal with the future of the Gentile world's history. And our God doesn't match the idealistic "all-loving" hippie picture Christians have painted him over with, making him out as if God is some kind of Santa Claus that you ask things of and, if you're good, you will get the toys you've requested on Christmas morning.

  The Great Cause of the universe may even be less personal than Christans claim God is. This Great Cause may be the scientific mathematical center of laws that governs all to be as it is. Some Jews see this Cause as the universe itself and all its secrets yet to be tapped and discovered by science. Some see God as greater than all this yet, but whatever God is, Judaism has one thing it knows for sure about God: something that Great will defy understanding and demands of doctrine that humans can possess and invent. God may not even be as perfect as Christianity says God has to be.

  Yet, our God gets blamed when the Christian golden calf fails to speak. When its prophecies don't become reality, our God gets blamed. When Christian interpretation get exposed as fraud it's is our Jewish Scriptures that get blamed.

  I am glad Cofty made a purposeful differentiation between the Christian view of God in the very beginning. It is important to keep this in mind. Jewish monotheistic though has advanced, no...EVOLVED like everything else does in nature to become something far more advanced and logical than the static views of Christianity. So I thank Cofty for making this point clearly from the beginning.

  We say the Bible is our history in allegory and mythology, Christians often say it's genuine history and use the writings of our prophets as a crystal ball that is supposed to be concerned with foretelling the future for Gentiles. We say it contains Jewish religious truths and they say it contains scientific facts. We say it contains lessons that must be adjusted to meet future needs and they say we must adjust our present lives to match its ancient, outdated demands.

  So please continue to differentiate between Scripture and God and those who have sold you something different. That golden calf may be pretty, but don't blame our God for not being a giant floating gold bull in the sky. God is not what you've been taught, never was that thing, and never will be.