To hate an entire race of people is pretty stupid.
Do You Condemn Anti-Semitism?
by minimus 77 Replies latest jw friends
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zeb
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LoveUniHateExams
Can anyone show any examples of Labour anti-semitism? - here's Jeremy Corbyn regretting that he called Hamas & Hezbollah 'friends' (@2 min 46 secs). Hamas & Hezbollah are notoriously anti-Semitic. Corbyn claims he called them friends in the interest of open dialogue. If that really was the case, there should be evidence of him calling the Israeli government 'friends' as well.
But, I'm pretty sure nobody can provide evidence of Corbyn calling the Israeli government 'friends.'
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slimboyfat
I am aware that Jeremy Corbyn has supported Palestinians and this is controversial for some. There is lots of footage and evidence of this. Similar complaints are made about his support for Irish Republicans. People make up their own mind about that.
Is that all they mean when they talk about Labour anti-semitism? Because I heard accusations of attacks, “vile abuse” and bullying. Are there any examples of this?
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LoveUniHateExams
Obviously, being anti-Semitic is wrong. It's racism.
And criticising Israel isn't necessarily anti-Semitic. Some Jews criticise Israel, and Israel shouldn't be shielded from legitimate criticism.
But here's the main problem, as I see it: Israel is held to a much higher standard than surrounding countries.
Jeremy Corbyn is a notorious critic of Israel. And at least some of his criticism is correct, well-observed and well-said.
But here's the thing - when does Jeremy Corbyn go on public protests demonstrating against the governments of the Gaza Strip or West Bank?
And when does Corbyn speak about boycotting Palestinian groups and surrounding countries?
Corbyn's big on gay rights, of course. Is there any footage of him praising Israel for its gay rights? Is there any footage of him condemning Palestine and surrounding countries for their absolutely abominable record on gay rights?
If you consistently hold Israel to a higher standard than you do surrounding countries, well, that's nothing more than anti-Semitism, period.
I am aware that Jeremy Corbyn has supported Palestinians and this is controversial for some. There is lots of footage and evidence of this - this is part of a pattern of Corbyn's anti-Semitism (see above).
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slimboyfat
So is this all they mean when they talk about bullying and “vile abuse”? I thought it meant more than debate about criticising Israel. I thought it meant Larbour people actually calling Jewish people names and targeting them. That’s the impression I got from the news. But no actual examples.
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LoveUniHateExams
So is this all they mean when they talk about bullying and “vile abuse”? - no, there are other incidences.
Luciana Berger, a Jewish Labour MP, has regularly received anti-Semitic abuse online from Momentum and other sections of the Labour party.
When she attended some Labour gathering recently, she had to have a police escort.
(Hint: that police escort wasn't to protect her from neo-Nazis.)
There are other incidences of Labour MPs, councillors and supporters coming out with Anti-Semitic and anti-Jewish crap.
Unfortunately, I don't have the links at the moment but there's plenty of it out there if you're interested.
The main problem is legitimate criticism of Israel shading into anti-Semitism.
Of course, it doesn't help when the current Labour leader calls Hamas and Hezbollah 'friends' whilst continually attacking Israel.
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slimboyfat
The police escort protected the MP from now-Nazis. So not an example of Labour anti-semitism, obviously. Pretty weird that this should be offered as evidence of Labour anti-semitism.
Where are the examples of anti-semitism abuse from members of the Labour Party? You’d think there would be tons of examples the way they talk about it on the news, but they never quote any actual instances.
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minimus
Sometimes what you don’t say or do is more telling than what you broadcast.
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LoveUniHateExams
The police escort protected the MP from now-Nazis - not sure about this - you'd need to provided evidence to support this assertion.
Here's a link talking about how some Labour people attempted to cover up the fact that Berger needed police protection:
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blondie
The current Israel is a secular country that was set up in 1948; I feel partly because the consciences of some governments bothered them that they did nothing to save the Jews in Europe. Anti-semitism has been around for a long time, probably even before the religious nation of Israel was destroyed in 70 CE (that is the temples was destroyed and the lineage records of the Jews were destroyed). Today, no Jewish person knows what tribe they are from, so no priesthood based on that. There are several groups of various interpretations of what Jews should do in their worship. Vary from liberal Judaism to Hasidic.
Also, some conservative Christian religions believe that the prophecies of the NT will be fulfilled on literal Jerusalem and that God's kingdom will rule from earth that the Jews are the foundation of that kingdom (the WTS taught something similar to this back in Russell's day even up to Rutherford's time; Rutherford even wrote a book entitled, Comfort for the Jews).
Part of my family fled Germany in the 1840's to put their Jewish heritage behind them because of the cruelty. What a surprise that was as I examined my family past, another family secret revealed.
Prejudice is born of ignorance and what the people around you believe. Not too different to what jws believe based on the prejudices of the WTS that are carefully taught.
In the end, I feel it means educating yourself, spending time with people other than your little safe group. I have visited every different religion in my area and talked to religious leaders and ordinary members. I keep up those contacts so I have an opportunity to keep seeing the other side or better yet that we are on the same side.
One of my family members was prejudiced about black people but when he met and spent time with our friends that were black and liked them and thought they were good people, he could not get past it and would say they were exceptions, a mistake many have made to resist changing their views, partly due to the fear that people in their own group would shun them....does that sound familiar.
I'm no expert on anti-semitism, but I have visited 2 concentration camps when I lived in Germany and met German people that had lived only 5 miles from one, and met and talked with at length, survivors of the concentration camps.
It is hard to root it out without a concerted effort to learn how to identify it and why it is harmful to others and harmful to us to have such cruel ideas and assumptions.
(soap box done)
Blondie