JW Family...UPDATE! Please advise!

by Ghost of Esmeralda 41 Replies latest jw friends

  • bluesapphire
    bluesapphire

    I agree with Mystery. My girls (11, 11 & 13 year olds) don't want to have anything to do with my sister whom they once adored. Reason: she shuns me and my husband. In fact, they have already told me that if she doesn't invite me when she gets married, they are going to return the invite to her with "0" on attendees.

    As Nathan stated, your daughter needs to be inocculated. The way I inocculated my girls was by letting them witness all the hatred the JWs create. Their once loving auntie has turned cruel and vindictive towards me. She is also a hypocrite because she asked me if she could come and see my newborn son and I let her, knowing she would NEVER allow me to see her babies when they come.

    As far as the restraining order on your sister, I think that's the way to go. It should be easy to get because it's not a parent and you have the right to restrain anyone you want from your children. Your ex husband will be required by law to abide by it. It gets around having to go through him and empowering him. YOU and YOU ALONE will hold ALL THE CARDS! I would even do this cheaply with a paralegal.

    TAKE THE POWER BACK AND YOU GO GO GO!!!

  • Sentinel
    Sentinel

    Is there any way that you and your daughter can go to private counseling together? This will reinforce what damage is being done and will bond the two of you.

    Someone who understands the JW cult can help you both get hold of your emotions and stabalize much of the trauma that you live under. You can't change your X, or your family. Attempts to do so will be fruitless and frustrating. But you can change yourself and you can help your daughter through it all.

    I know what you are going through, and I know it hurts terribly. So unloving. You are suffering, but your daughter is being pulled apart by all of this. You both need help. NOW.

  • Mary
    Mary

    "....for him to stand there and tell me that he will allow my sister full access to my child and there's not a damn thing I can do (and probably, legally, that's right) makes my blood boil....."

    Essie, of COURSE there is something you can do about it. First of all, DON'T listen to anything your dingbat of an ex-husband says. He's trying to make you believe that he still has the control over the situation, and if you BELIEVE he does, then he'll continue to try and screw you over.

    You need to go talk to a lawyer asap and explain the situation. Tell him/her that your ex-husband and your family are all Witnesses, which you view as a cult and they are trying to influence your daughter against you. While your ex still might be able to get visitation rights, it will be no problem for you to refuse your sister or other family members, access to your daughter. If your ex decides to break that, he would more than likely lose his visitation rights.

    I know this must be very difficult emotionally for you, but you have to be strong. I would also like to recommend that you maybe should seek counselling for people who leave cults. I think it might really help you.

    Good luck and keep us posted.

  • cruzanheart
    cruzanheart

    You're getting good advice, Essie! All I can add to this is for you to print out the transcripts of the Dateline, Panorama, CBS Evening News programs, and any of the others you can find in English. Start a file that you can use either to a judge or to your ex. You have the right to keep your daughter from any situation that is potentially harmful to her, and God only knows what kind of people she is around at the Kingdom Hall. In the meantime, make sure your daughter knows that you love her and will protect her to the best of your ability. Make sure she knows that this situation is NOT HER FAULT, and that whatever your ex and his scummy family have her do when she's over there is also NOT HER FAULT. A 7-year-old cannot be expected to be responsible for what adults tell her to do, and she has to know it's okay.

    Love to you both,

    Nina

  • Oroborus21
    Oroborus21

    Howdy,

    I may not be your favourite person right now but (in my previous post) I really was thinking about the flowergirl experience from your daughter's point of view.

    Anyway, you should not rely upon an informal arrangement with your ex-husband in this situation. Even if he complies with your wishes for the time being it is useful to have something that will have the force of having consequences. This is not a personal attack on him and if he really doesn't intend to violate your wishes then he will have no problem with you proceeding.

    First, you mentioned that you have "joint custody." I hope that this is a formal order that is contained in your dissolution of marriage final order and not just an informal arrangement between you two. What you should do is contact the judge that issued the final order and that handled your case. You can write him or her a letter including your case number and a copy of your order and request that the order be modified. You can visit the court clerk who can answer your questions on how to get the order modified.

    what you will be seeking to do is to attach some conditions to the arrangement and since you are not seeking to actually reduce your ex's visitation, make it supervised or increase his responsibilites, adding the additional conditions of him not allowing contact with certain third-parities (your sister) during his visitations should not be a problem for the court--especially since he (I assume) doesn't have any familial bonds with the third-parties you are seeking to exclude.

    Naturally, you must be prepared to explain to the court's satisfaction why you are seeking to exclude THESE particular third-parties and to place this RESTRICTION upon your Ex. This is not an easy hurdle to get over but you should have enough evidence, including your testimony as to why that contact is 1) detrimental to your daughter itself and 2) detrimental to the relationship between you and your daughter--mostly because of the impact upon your daughter's perception of YOU by the situation (shunning) and any disparagement (verbal) of you that may occur during such contact.

    As a third factor you could argue that while your ex (having his own parental rights) has some legitimate claim to how he desires to influence your daughter's religious and spiritual development, these third parties do not have such standing. Because there is already going to be some conflict created by your influence versus your ex's, to allow additional third parties who are specifically going to create ADDITIONAL conflict will only serve to increase your daughter's confusion and development to her detriment. This is especially true until your daughter reaches an age and level of sophistication where she is better able to sort through such different viewpoints and begin to draw her own conclusions and make religious and spiritual decisions for herself.

    I would concentrate on points 2 and 3 above. Point 1 will get you into a quagmire that the court will not want to get into as it will require an analysis of JW doctrine and culture and exactly why those things themselves are directly detrimental to your daughter.

    Arguments 2 and 3 are much easier to prove and deal specifically with the practicality of the situation and most judges are for the most part pragmatists.

    [I saw a ridiculous post about the child molestation issue. It is ridiculous because it is HIGHLY unlikely that your child is actually endangered and to drag the issue in is unreasonable. However, the issue is germaine in the sense that you can use the issue to your advantage by bringing up with the court, should the procedures get this far, such relevant concerns that attending meetings (unsupervised by someone other than of your designation--perhaps your ex) and participating in field service (under similar conditions) may expose yourself to an UNKNOWN (undocumented-unprosecuted-unconvicted) sex offender due to specific Watchtower policies and ecclesiatical (judicial committee) procedures that make it possible for such a person to have association with your daughter unknown and unsupervised by either yourself or your authorized designee. Naturally, you will require some actual testimony and evidence to this point but if things were to get this far such evidence may be very pursuasive.

    However, this is with regard to meeting attendance and field service and I am unsure if these are issues with you or not. It seems to me that you are seeking to go much further than this and forbid even non-physical contact between your daughter and her aunt including telephonic, electronic, and even postal communication so these factors regarding the Child Molestation issue are not truly relevant to these non-physical forms of contact.]

    Much of this whole process you can handle yourself without the aid of an attorney and if you are nice to the court staff and get them to help you.

    I hope the above practical advice will help you. By the way since I am an attorney in California and you are not in CA, I have to give my little disclaimer that the above is not intended to be legal advice in your jurisdiction and you are further advised to seek counsel in your own jurisdiction.

    having said all of that, I disagree with you that you should seek to cut off all contact with your family on behalf of your daughter. you are the one DF'd not her. She should be entitled to decide for herself whether she would like any contact with her aunt and grandparents.

    When she is older and can understand more THEN you can arm her with as much of the facts (but not the negative baggage) regarding why you feel she should not have contact with your Aunt.

    --Eduardo

  • Oroborus21
    Oroborus21

    whoops typo the paragraph above which reads::

    participating in field service (under similar conditions) may expose yourself to an UNKNOWN (undocumented-unprosecuted-unconvicted) sex offender due to specific

    should say expose your daughter not yourself. that is probably obvious but I tend to be a stickler for typos and clarity.

    --eduardo

  • Xandria
    Xandria
    having said all of that, I disagree with you that you should seek to cut off all contact with your family on behalf of your daughter. you are the one DF'd not her. She should be entitled to decide for herself whether she would like any contact with her aunt and grandparents.

    When she is older and can understand more THEN you can arm her with as much of the facts (but not the negative baggage) regarding why you feel she should not have contact with your Aunt.

    Excuse me??? by allowing her daughter to have contact with these hostile family memebers, she risks having her daughter confused, emotionally scarred, etc. Which can later bring out behaviorial issues. A child cannot make that decision until she is much older. All she understands is that her Auntie, Grandparents, and father all dislike her mother because she did something "bad" in thier eyes. If that doesn't warp the parent child relationship then what does ?

    So let me make sure I am understanding you correctly.. that you want her to allow her child to keep in contact with these people who are this corrupt and willing to place a child in a postition she should never have to be in.. to choose between her mother and other family. That is Emotional Black Mail if I ever heard it.

    The Emotional and Mental damage alone would be my concern. An any Mother protecting her child against these abuses has my support.

    All the more reason that guidelines must be outlined, agreed upon and strictly followed. NOW not later.

    Xandria

    Graduate of ScrewU-University.

  • pandora
    pandora

    Essie-

    I feel for your situation. I am so glad that he is backing off right now. I have nothing outstanding to say. I just wanted you to know that there is one person out here, on YOUR side.

    My thoughts are with you.

    (((ESSIE))))

    -P(J)

  • azaria
    azaria

    Hi Essie:

    It must be a great feeling to feel so much support from the people here. I don't have time to read most of the responses here, there are so many, and some so long. Have to leave soon. Both you and your daughter are in my thoughts. Hope eventually it all works out for you.

    A BIG(((((((((((((())))))))))))))))for you!!

  • Ghost of Esmeralda
    Ghost of Esmeralda

    Yes, it has been amazing to receive all this support. I never expected so many replies! Much to consider, esp. the legal info. Thank you everyone!

    Another update: my ex called my father today (as he has been known to do, to ask him to get me back into line) My father apparently discouraged him from calling his lawyer, told him it'd be a waste of money cause he'd lose! My father read the same piece of info that I gave to my ex yesterday (from that other court case) and he said "Well no one can argue with it, because it's correct!" !!!!!! He agrees no child should be subjected to hearing anyone speak in a derogotary way about their mother.

    So apparently he told my ex to calm down, told him that I'm not making outrageous requests. I informed my dad today that I never asked my ex to call my sister, that it was all his doing to create drama and more conflict. My father looked at me and said "You've come so far in five years. I don't want you to think that you don't have...allies." He's been df'd before (in his youth) and he says he's "been where I am." apparently, he remembers more than he'd like to.

    Hopefully, if this goes as it usually goes when my ex calls my dad, he will calm my ex down somewhat, and also help in heading off any over-reaction on the part of my sister. She didn't call today, I half thought she would. I'm relieved she didn't, actually.

    I told my dad that I didn't say my sister could never see my daughter again. She and her (elder) husband are welcome to come to my home, while my husband is here in the evening as well, and they may sit in my livingroom and play a game of monopoly with my daughter. But it has to be both of them, and both of us, with my daughter. My father feels that this is a perfectly acceptable idea, nothing wrong with it! I know it's not going to happen, my brother in law won't be in the same room with me.

    Strange, sometimes you never know where support for your position is going to come from...

    My mother still isn't picking up when I call. She lets it go to the machine...

    Will keep you all posted on this as it goes on...thanks again for all your support. And thank you Simon and Angharad for this place...

    ~essie (and family)

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit