Would a loving creator give humans the gift of free will? (page 5)

Island Man

Yes a loving creator will give humans the gift of free will.

What seems odd to me though, is using free will as an explanation for how perfect creatures with perfect minds could ever commit sin.

The initiation of thoughts in the mind is actually an involuntary occurrence dictated by environmental factors. Yes with some effort you can consciously dismiss an unwholesome thought - but only after it has already arisen in your mind. And herein lies the problem: If God created man perfect why should it be possible for sinful thoughts to involuntarily pop into a perfect mind, presenting the risk of sin? This shows that there is a design flaw.

Consider this: Does God have free will? JWs and all other theists will say yes he does. Yet the bible says that it is impossible for God to lie or act unjustly - it is impossible for him to sin. Thus God as described in the bible refutes the JW teaching that it is impossible to have free will without the possibility of sin. It also highlights the fact that the God of the bible created Adam with a design flaw. For he could have made Adam to have free will coupled with the same inability to sin that he (God) has.

If man has to have the ability to sin in order for his choice to love God to have any value, then what does it say about God's love for anyone if God lacks the ability to sin?

So the arguments that JWs use to explain why free will and love necessitates the freedom to sin - those arguments are refuted by God's nature as described in the bible, a being who has free will yet is unable to sin.

James Brown

In America they have the 10 commandments posted in various places.

These are the 10 commandments that I have seen in America.

Exodus
19:25 So Moses went down unto the people, and spake unto them.
20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth me..
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9.Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass,nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s

James Brown

There are a lot of choices, free will that people have.

2 popular choices that people have to make is to make sense out of the bible and there being a God.

or that there is no God, designer creator and we ended up here by chance.

cofty

In America they have the 10 commandments posted in various places

I wasn't aware that christianity was an American religion.

Diogenesister

Fisherman - I trust him with my life.

I wish I did. My life experience tells me there's no one there....it was all a wonderful delusion. It's over now and I lament waking up and finding myself alone.

I feel you.

Why can't we set up an " you are not alone, give us a hug, love to everyone" " church" for people who do the maths and realize there is no God and the universe is utterly indifferent to us.

Fisherman

happened to have his wishes met,

That is what you see?! You are not looking at what I wrote.

Although evidence from God is a basis for hope, you would still need to be able to think (that requires faith) though to understand and to be able to see that hope realize someday; However, such striking proof is not the actual realization of some hope or answer to all of your prayers, it is only a guarantee that hope is plausible.

atomant

One of the 10 commandments god gave men was not to kill.Regardless of whether we had a free will or not we all know its wrong to kill but its quite ok for god to do all the killing.What type of god is that???

paul from cleveland

Knowing what's now possible why cling to this old implausible narrative? I have no idea what's happening but I highly doubt it's what we've first learned. Wouldn't 'god' have worked out these issues theoretically first? Created computer models before actually creating another consciousness? (if that's even possible) With what we know today, why would we think such simple metaphorical stories such as 'Adam and Eve' have any basis in reality? (other than in principle) Isn't it more likely that we did this to ourselves? (or are doing) Even if someone had to be subjected to this madness, wouldn't it be required only once? To one person? And wouldn't 'god' go first? (afterward most likely to decide it's a bad idea)

Saintbertholdt

From the 1958, 15 January Watchtower article entitled: Overseers in the Right Hand of Christ

"...God’s spirit speaking by him promises a grand reward, incorruptibility in the heavenly kingdom and a new relationship with Jehovah God,"

So according to Watchtower theology the 144 000 receive incorruptibility as a reward in heaven. Therefore they CANNOT sin any longer. So either they lose their free will or free will can exist without the risk of sin. So the whole exercise in Eden was pointless as God could have given man free will without the risk of his fall, or free will was not a big deal in the first place.

Once again the Watchtower's theology collapses under its own weight.

Lieu

Biblically. If it was given to the angels, why not humans too?

As for 'sin', it simply translates as 'to cause offense'.

Would a loving creator give humans the gift of free will?

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