Someone anonymously tipped the elders?

by raven 70 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  DJS

  Marriage records are part of the public domain. They can easily verify this without asking her for any proof. If they do and find our she was lying they will increase the 'charges' against her.

  A lot of bad advice on this OP. Your options based on the most optimal to the least optimal: a. Get a lawyer and fight back hard. Now; b. Suffer the consequences with your head held high and both middle fingers in salute of the Dark Lords and their minions - and tell them what Witness My Fury said before they take action; or c. Let whatever they do worry you to the point of breakdown and act passively until it occurs. There is always the chance these elders will leave her alone, but that seems doubtful given what we have heard.

  If you are truly out of the Dark Tower forever, you will have to let whatever occurs with family occur. Or play the reinstatement game and then start yet another fade. If you do, learn how to fade appropriately.
• 

  StephaneLaliberte

  I can't imagine the JWs bringing you to court for fraud over made up wedding papers. And if they do, then, you obviously were under duress. So, I wouldn't worry about that.
• 

  DJS

  Steph,

  You are missing the point. The court would be their judicial committee - not civil courts. They can very easily determine if she was married; these are public records. Lying about it would be added to their internal JC 'findings'. If they get to this point it won't go well with her.
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  StephaneLaliberte

  They don't find it in the public records? She can then make up a story where she was scammed by a false "civil servant" who told her she was in fact married and gave her the false record! By the way, I doubt that they would go through the trouble of fact checking things that much. Most elders don't even car that much.
  
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  StephaneLaliberte

  DJS: getting a lawyer is a 50% thing. If you got elders with some balls, they will know that a layer letter is, in fact, all barks and no bite. From my own experience and that of those I personally know, lying your way through it is closer to 75% chance. Oh, and by all means, don't let it go to a JC. JCs generally tend to establish repentance rather than guilt. 
  
• 

  DJS

  Your suggestion borders on the ridiculous, and you are wasting everyone's time posting this nonsense.

  They may not investigate to the point of checking these very available and open records. They may not even pursue her at all. But she should prepare for a worst case scenario event. If I'm on the JC and our JC finds that she is 'worthy' of targeting for judicial investigation, then I'm going to ensure it includes all of the facts. She may get some sloppy elders, some who don't care. Do you really want to give her lame advice that assumes the least case scenario????

  Please read some of the experiences shared on this OP. Or listen to some of the former elders who will tell you how these things work. You think lying works 75% of the time? In your experience? Does that mean you've lied 75% of the time and successfully gotten out of it? Does your experience have anything to do with empirical data that covers the entire Borg system? And just how do you know a lawyer is a 50/50 thing? Again, do you have empirical data that suggests?

  If not then you are again wasting everyone's time with your thoughts and feelings. Keep them to yourself and try to focus on salient, rational solutions.

  
  
  
• 

  StephaneLaliberte

  My sister, my mom, my cousin, my self, my friend, my dad, we ALL LIED! Some were to avoid the JC, some were in a JC faking their remorse. One way or another, lying worked.

  I know that lying sounds childish and even, without values. But when you are working against a system that requires two witnesses, I do believe it is the best route. Also, you may even use lying as the first option. The second being - the letter from your lawyer. You need to try everything.

  One thing for sure is that sending the lawyer letter before even trying to lying your way through it could take away some of the very best chances you may have.
  

  And yes, most elders are actually sloppy and don't care when it comes to people who left and don't go back to the hall. Probably that the only reason they are following up on it is because someone reported them. If you feed them something they can feed it back to the anonymous tipster. Than, they will be happy about this and go on living their lives.
• 

  StephaneLaliberte

  Oh, and yes, I personally know an elder who, at a restaurant, shared the very funny story of how one apostate sent him a lawyer letter and how he basically wiped his ass with it.

  Honestly, you may be right, I don't have real data about 50% for the lawyer letter, so, I take this back. But as I can remember the laughter of that elder at the restaurant and a lawyer is actually all barks and no bit.
  
• 

  DJS

  Of course lie. Lie, lie, lie. But if they are smart they already know the truth. The first rule of an investigator is to always- or as much as possible - know the answers to the questions you are about to ask.

  If she had already admitted to living with BF, backtracking from that will be nearly impossible. Validating her arrangement is very, very easy. Validating a marriage is even easier.

  Most elders? Let's hope they are leaving them be, but that is not the history I know or one that I see shared on this site, even among recent escapees. Can it be hit or miss? Of course, but once again preparing for a least case scenario that assumes dim witted, disengaged elders is a mistake. A big one. And it is an even bigger mistake for any of us to suggest this as a response to Snow White.

  Ignore them. Continue ignoring them. Don't meet or speak with them. But if they make ONE attempt to determine issues associated with a judicial investigation, just one, get a lawyer and prepare a full frontal assault. The lawyer is smart enough to know when to unload on them; that's what they get paid for.

  So if they pursue the issue, the lawyer can go full frontal all over the sorry asses. And I don't believe, not for one second, that an elder wiped his ass with a lawyer's letter. That was likely braggadocio speaking. What he immediately did with it is send it, while quaking in fear, to the Dark Lords for guidance.
• 

  traveb

  This is why it's in your best interests to change congregations before or during your fade. If you get your publisher card moved to a new congregation where the elders don't know you, it's way easier to fade because your former elders no longer have any reason to go after you.