How many TRUE BELIEVERS do you think are left in the Organization?

by pistolpete 72 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    In this post I provide an update to my words of a prior post in which I said "Br. Russell in at least one of his old books said Jehovah might have used evolution to create nonhuman life (but not for human life since Genesis chapter two says Jehovah fashioned Adam from dirt)." Though in a number of places in some of his writings Russell says that evolution is wrong, in chapter 2 in at least one edition of The Divine Plan of the Ages book, he does say that nonhuman species could have been made by God through some sort of theistic evolutionary creationism that ultimately results in the kinds of life becoming fixed. For example see http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/plan/chapter2.html (its website seem to have been created by a devout one of Jehovah's Witnesses). There the book (as transcribed on the website) says:

    "Surely if unintelligent nature were the creator or evolver she would continue the process, and there would be no such thing as fixed species, since without intelligence nothing would arrive at fixed conditions. Evolution would be a fact to-day, and we would see about us fish becoming birds, and monkeys becoming men. This theory we conclude to be as contrary to human reason as to the Bible, when it claims that intelligent beings were created by a power lacking intelligence. One theory regarding the creation (excepting man) by a process of evolution, to which we see no serious objection, we briefly state as follows: It assumes that the various species of the present are fixed and unchangeable so far as nature or kind is concerned, and though present natures may be developed to a much higher standard, even to perfection, these species or natures will forever be the same. This theory further assumes that none of these fixed species were originally created so, but that in the remote past they were developed from the earth, and by gradual processes of evolution from one form to another. These evolutions, under divinely established laws, in which changes of food and climate played an important part, may have continued until the fixed species, as at present seen, were established, beyond which change is impossible, the ultimate purpose of the Creator in this respect, to all appearance, having been reached. Though each of the various families of plants and animals is capable of improvement or of degradation, none of them is susceptible of change into, nor can they be produced from, other families or kinds. Though each of these may attain to the perfection of its own fixed nature, the Creator's design as to nature having been attained, further change in this respect is impossible. It is claimed that the original plants and animals, from which present fixed varieties came, became extinct before

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    the creation of man. Skeletons and fossils of animals and plants which do not now exist, found deep below the earth's surface, favor this theory. This view neither ignores nor rejects the Bible teaching that man was a direct and perfect creation, made in the mental and moral image of his Maker, and not a development by a process of evolution, probably common to the remainder of creation. This view would in no sense invalidate, but would support, the Bible's claim, that nature as it is to-day teaches that an Intelligent Being ordered it, and was its first cause. Let human reason do her best to trace known facts to reasonable and competent causes, giving due credit to nature's laws in every case; but back of all the intricate machinery of nature is the hand of its great Author, the intelligent, omnipotent God. We claim, then, that the existence of an Intelligent Creator is a clearly demonstrated truth, the proof of which lies all around us: yea, and within us; for we are his workmanship, whose every power of mind and body speaks of a marvelous skill beyond our comprehension. And he is also the Designer and Creator of what we term nature. We claim that he ordered and established the laws of nature, the beauty and harmony of whose operation we see and admire. This one whose wisdom planned and whose power upholds and guides the universe, whose wisdom and power so immeasurably transcend our own, we instinctively worship and adore. To realize the existence of this mighty God is but to dread his omnipotent strength, unless we can see him possessed of benevolence and goodness corresponding to his power. Of this fact we are also fully assured by the same evidence which proves his existence, power and wisdom. Not only are we forced to the conclusion that there is a God, and that his power and wisdom are immeasurably beyond our own, but we are forced by reason to the conclusion that

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    the grandest thing created is not superior to its Creator; hence we must conclude that the greatest manifestation of benevolence and justice among men is inferior in scope to that of the Creator, even as man's wisdom and power are inferior to his. And thus we have before our mental vision the character and attributes of the great Creator. He is wise, just, loving and powerful; and the scope of his attributes is, of necessity, immeasurably wider than that of his grandest creation. But further: having reached this reasonable conclusion relative to the existence and character of our Creator, let us inquire, What should we expect of such a being? The answer comes, that the possession of such attributes reasonably argues their exercise, their use. God's power must be used, and that in harmony with his own nature - wisely, justly and benevolently."

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot
    Disillusioned JW - "I wish there was a way to find out who are the JWs with doubts and who are the disfellowshiped JWs (ones considering reinstatement), so that we could contact them and share with them what we have learned."

    They can only do that themselves.

    Take heart, though... sooner or later, they do.

    How else do you think most of us ended up here, after all?

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    All of them are in their 60s and up into their 90s There is nothing you can say or show them to convince them or even cause a small doubt that the WT is not God Organization.
    Any jw under 50 years of age I don't consider, for the most part, a True Believer.


    Yes, I will agree with that thought from the opening post. There might be a handful of true believers under 50, but not really many.

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