How many TRUE BELIEVERS do you think are left in the Organization?

by pistolpete 72 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  pistolpete

  FedUpJW

  "If Jehovah's Witnesses had been then what they are now, I would NEVER have become one!"

  That's actually what's happening now with young born in jws. Exjw reddit gain 3000 new members in just a week.
  
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  stan livedeath

  Hopeless1

  
  

  This is my first ever post here though I have been reading almost daily for 2 or three years now,

  welcome to the site--and thanks for your first reply...i hope there will be many more.
  
  

  
  
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  waton

  But here is where your “Gradations” in belief start to appear----------1975 After 1975 the House started to crumble slowly. pp:

  before that was the revealing reversal of the Superior / supreme Authorities, Ja1 and Je2 vs the governments in the 60s.

  Wt inc was wrong and Babylon t.G. was right. all along,

  Nobody in their right mind could ever have absolute confidence in current wt teachings after that again. on any subject, object-tively.
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  slimboyfat

  Yes I met a couple who left the JWs over the “superior authorities” switch. It’s ancient news now, but was a big deal at the time. The brother said he couldn’t take the Watchtower seriously after that.

  Not to mention that the switch was largely responsible for the Watchtower split in Romania involving thousands of JWs.

  There was an infamous Watchtower Study in the 1990s that strongly implied that Jehovah intentionally misled JWs into a false understanding of Romans 13 because it bolstered their resolve in the face of hostile governments in the 1940s. What a can of worms if that idea was fully explored. Does Jehovah use deception to lead his people? Is the Bible not sufficiently inspired so that it must be misunderstood in order to be “beneficial for teaching”, and JWs must at times believe false interpretations in order to be “fully equipped for every good work”? (2 Tim 3:16)

  Is that official JW understanding of how Jehovah operates using deception, or had the Watchtower writer gone somewhat off the reservation here? It’s not an idea that Watchtower has elaborated, as far as I’m aware.
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  waton

  intentionally misled ***JWs into a false understanding of Romans 13 because it bolstered their resolve in the face of hostile governments in the 1940s. sbf:

  I was involved remotely with the class of Gilead in 1958, and a brother from germany there related how divisive, disruptive this teaching was for those in the camps, cut off from the outside and facing death for their stand based on these teaching differences !929 / 1939.

  *** there is biblical precedent for that in the contest of the prophets before Ahab's death. another reason to view the whole enterprise with well founded scepticism

  True believers in truth.
  
  
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  slimboyfat

  Waton is that a parallel that Watchtower themselves have used to show Jehovah uses deception on his own people?

  Yes I think the period when the “superior authorities” was interpreted to mean Jehovah and Jesus instead of governments was 1929 until 1962. Which is interesting timing in a number of respects. Because 1929 was before major conflicts with the Nazis or the flag salute became an issue. Plus the NWT already inserted the phrase “stand placed in their relative positions by God” in Romans 13 in 1950, twelve years before the doctrine officially switched back.

  I can see that German brothers in the camps would have been uneasy about resting their stand on the official interpretation of Romans 13 at the time. The Watchtower view now is that the interpretation of this one passage didn’t affect the stand one way or another, but one can easily imagine it could have been source of psychological angst for JWs in that situation to uphold such a contrived interpretation of a pretty self explanatory passage.
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  waton

  source of psychological angst for JWs in that situation to uphold such a contrived interpretation, sbf:

  When you were facing death by firing squad or guillotine, and wondered whether it was allowable to work raising furry animals whose pelts were used to line Luftwaffe high altitude suits.

  These were true believers, not like our latter day "elders" pushing kids to pioneer while presiding over their $$$ estates.
  
  
  
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  Guard

  Hopeless1, I'm not always quick to grasp the meaning of English nicknames. But when I realized what your nickname meant, I felt even sadder.

  Dear Hopeles1, don't go. Hope is not lost. Even if you are saddened by the iniquities that are happening around us or your mistakes, God can correct everything. It's not your fault that you were born and lived in such an environment. It's not your fault that it affected you. He will support you even in the darkest hour and give you so much strength that you can do everything.
  

  If you remember, God began to work in Canaan when the measure of the iniquity of Canaan was filled. Therefore, the greater the iniquity, the closer the deliverance. Lawlessness must reach the point of no return.
  

  As it is written, God will deliver the poor and the crying, who has no helper. Note, it does not say here that He will deliver the calm and contented persons. No, He himself becomes an Helper to every person who suffers like you.
  

  Go back, and do not lose hope of forgiveness and salvation.

  The more lawlessness around, the closer salvation is. As Jesus said, when you see all these things come to pass, know that your deliverance is at hand.

  Finally, when we were young, we fell in love, and this feeling carried us on its wings. This is what the Spirit, the wings of God's love, means. Let them lift you up and never let you go.
  
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  pistolpete

  There was an infamous Watchtower Study in the 1990s that strongly implied that Jehovah intentionally misled JWs into a false understanding of Romans 13 because it bolstered their resolve in the face of hostile governments in the 1940s

  WTF!!!!!!!!

  I was a baby in 1990, so those my age and younger have never heard of this!
  
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  Simon

  I always struggle to 'believe' (ha) that anyone really believes it. I mean, I know some must do, right? Or do they?

  I was a "believer" but really I never believed it. What I did believe was that I had to go along with it all because that was what I'd been brought up to do - it was expected of me.

  How many really just believe in the lifestyle and social community and know that they have to profess "belief" to be part of that and keep their family contacts?

  The other thing I believe is that belief is less real the higher up people go in the organization. True believers are likely not rewarded for their zeal and as happens in every organization, the ones that "get ahead" are those that promote themselves and want position and power. The higher up you go, the more of the hidden crap you see, but at that point you are more invested and the people who are rewarded and promoted are those who are not going to expose it all. Company men.