Verses that bothered you as a JW
How 'bout that king that put his sons, one each, into the holes for the gateposts of the city? That seemed a little on the barbaric side to me.
BUT THE BIGGIE for me was when I discovered that after all the hoopla surrounding the priests of Jehovah, and the sub-priests and the holy, and the most holy, and the holy of holies and all that jazz, that the will of god was determined by the high priests playing with ROCKS. The Urim and Thumin. Call 'em what you want, but they were still rocks. Imagine that, the will of the existential, infinite god being determined by playing with rocks!! And only TWO at that. At least there were multiple rune stones and so you'd think that messages from god would be more subtle via using many rocks instead of only two.
It stands to reason that if you only have two rocks to determine the will of god, that the method of that determination would have to be by via inquiry, right? As in: Shall we attack the Hittites this afternoon and lay them waste and smote them with the sword so that they all die right down to the old men and the little children still at suck and we take possession of their city and we bring back bushels and bushels of those foreskins you like so much and put them on a fire so that the smell of their burning makes a restful odor in your nostrils (we think that's a waste. IF we made you a wallet of the foreskins, all you would have to do then would be to rub the wallet and it would turn into a three-suiter, but hey, if you want to waste them like that, they're YOUR foreskins). And then they roll the Urim and Thumin and it comes up bad news for the Hittites. I mean what other way IS there with only two rock.
That thing about the Urim and Thumin was very unsettleing to me, very. The will of god determined by playing dice haruuumpth.
could you please state the versus, Francois. That is a more esoteric subject.
Not really a particular verse but here goes. What about the teaching that at armageddon they say that all but JWs will die, young and old yadda yadda yadda....dead forever. But someone today....lives to be say 90 years old..and just say they came into the "truth" at 85. They had 85 YEARS TO CHANGE AND BECOME A JW. Meanwhile a 5 year old dies because mommy and daddy arent JW's. Or say a 20 year old..dies at armageddon but they only had 20 years to change whereas the begining example had 85 years. Or this.....an 85 year old dies a day before the great tribulation (can be resurected etc.)starts another 85 year old lives a day later and dies forever ? Is this making sense or am I babbling on ?
Im not a JW, I agree that some of what they teach concerning what you are talking about makes no sense and is in fact wrong.
The way they teach it, yes it is illogical. Partly because they make up their own rules concerning salvation and righteousness.
What you are arguing can also be applied to what the bible teaches. Unless you have faith in Christ for salvation you will go to hell. At first this does not make sense. It does make sense though if you realize that hell is just the payment for ones works. You get what you have earned in Hell. The people that go to heaven don't get what they have earned. This is similar to the Presidential pardon. The President, for his own reasons, pardons some people of the same crimes that he punishes others for. He pardons his freinds mostly and no one can stop him from doing it. The other criminals have no moral protest though because they are only getting what they have earned.
I absolutely agree with you though that the Watchtower's Armageddon crap about it not being fair was a major concern for me for a long time, part of the reason I left. The reason I am satisfied with Christianity's take on salvation is it is not up to humans to sell magazines in order to save people. If the WTS held Christianity's position they could not make their subjects blood guilty and force them to sell more hours a month lest they die at Armageddon. One reason for their obvious confusion I'm sure.
Oh yes, damning people forever in a burning Hell is much more logical than the JW version of destruction .
Logan, first of all what do you know about hell?
Oh yes, damning people forever in a burning Hell is much more logical than the JW version of destruction
Just like everyone else you over simplify the issue. I wish I didn't have to just say the same thing to you that you just replied to.
1) hell is separation from God.
2) in hell people will receive payment for the works they have performed in life. Justice will be done. everyone will be made to understand that it IS justice. you will not be punished for anything you have not done. If you have done no wrong then you don't need to worry. If you did something wrong in your life and want forgiveness Yashua will forgive you, if you put your faith in him.
Logic is a tool used to search for the truth. God does not need to search for the Truth. How powerful will your logic seem to God?
Every single verse read, every word uttered from their mouth, every doctrine they tried pounding in my thoughts.
Mulan has sent me two emails telling me to add to this thread.
So a few weeks ago my four year old daughter was asking questions about Jesus and decided she wanted to see a picture of him. She actually wanted to see a picture of him DEAD but I showed her some kind of cartoon-like pictures of him in a child's bible. She was not impressed. I decided that the book was simple yet could be interesting to her so I told her we were going to start reading it at bedtime and she could learn about Jesus etc. We started with the creation account in this very simplistic children's bible and she was just thinking it was one big YAWN. I finished the chapter and her daddy read her a nice princess story. I then moved on to my six year old son...
Rhys is six but very bright and really thinks about things. I have a more advanced children's bible story book for him and told him the same thing. We are going to start reading this from the beginning so you will know the whole story. I didn't get far.
I read the creation account, fairly interesting to him, left him wondering about the fact that there was a beginning and the earth and it's inhabitants weren't always here. Moved on to the garden of Eden and that's when things started getting tough. He just didn't buy it. After getting past the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he interrupted me and said "god shouldn't have made that tree". I told him it was a test but he firmly stood his ground and said it was a mistake. We discussed the stupidity of Eve talking to a snake and not wondering why the snake was talking. We wondered why she was so jazzed about the fruit when she should have been calling Adam over to see the talking snake. When I explained that Satan had made himself into a talking snake to fool her he said god should have destroyed Satan right then and there. I told him I thought he was right. He then decided we needed to help god destroy Satan and was planning on rallying up a group of preschoolers the next day to help out. I tried to rein him in a bit. That's what I needed, a bunch of preschool moms calling to find out why my son was convincing their children to kill the devil. I told him it was god's fight and not ours. I was desperately trying to end the discussion by this time as I was completely at a loss as to what to tell him. The whole time I was thinking how I don't even believe this sh*t and I'm trying to explain it to my six year old who saw through it immediately.
I put the book back on the shelf and haven't touched it since. Perhaps it was too soon? Maybe too late? I'll wait awhile and we'll read it just to teach him what some people believe. I don't think he'll be easily convinced himself. We never got past the tree of knowledge.
For those that believe in the bible I must say that i don't want to destroy their faith. But for me as JW, the verse that bothered me most is the entire bible itself. Is all contradictory. I think that it can be used to support the believes of mosty any christian religion. I prefer the scholars' point of view. For me Jesus was a man, but , as many other pagan religions, he was eventualy divinized, I think that a carefuly study of the gospels can reveal this. Of course to reach this conclusion, I did a lot of research, and finally adopted the explanation that for me is more plausible.
Thanks Rachel. I hope everyone here enjoys this experience as much as I did.
As she said, he is VERY bright.