Lurker trying to gain clarity

by questioningmyfaith 75 Replies latest jw friends

  • defender of truth
    defender of truth

    questioningmyfaith said:

    But, if you have any answers to my questions about the world getting worse and mankind destroying it I would be happy to hear.

    Really? Then why have you not responded to any of the replies you have already had to your questions?

    Even a simple thanks to those who took the time to reply to you, would be polite.

    Saintbertholdt 4 days ago
    "If there is no god, is there hope for mankind"
    Definitely. If you look at the statistics, for example: Average human life expectancy, average available calories per day per human, infectious disease statistics and even population growth you'll notice that things overall are getting better over time for the entire planet.
    Regarding climate change: The fact that it has been detected and debated is a very good thing. You can't fix something if you don't know its broken.
    "Why do humans seem to be so unable to rule themselves."
    Slowly but surely the world is democratizing. This is a good thing as it also goes hand in hand with free markets which is also a good thing.
    Human kind can still drop the ball in a big way, but I think that we're on the right track.
    Believing in God and the Watchtower does seem to give one comfort in that one supposedly knows the future, but this is an illusion. The future is an unknown country which makes it scary but also exhilarating at the same time.
    OneEyedJoe 4 days ago
    This reminds me of the Socrates quote from over 1600 years ago:
    The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.

    The fact is that every generation thinks the outgoing generation is old fashioned and that the next generation is doomed. You're focusing on the bad news which is often sensationalized and put forth more because it sells.

    There's lots of good news out there too, though. There have been people in every generation for the last 2000 years that thought that "critical times hard to deal with will be here" was being fulfilled. Meanwhile the world has improved by just about every metric there is.

    Billyblobber 4 days ago
    Climate change isn't "hopeless." You're looking at this from a strictly human-centric perspective, first of all, which makes sense when you've been around a religion that makes humanity the center of the universe.

    If humans are just another animal, then they don't matter to this planet any more than the dinosaurs, which were on the planet longer.

    Even if they have an effect on the climate or blow themselves up in nuclear war, the earth will change as it has always been changing, and new life will appear or other life that survives will evolve and become the dominant species. So what humans do, only matters to humans themselves. And as such, we have the best chance of any species that ever existed on this planet to possibly outlive the planet itself (the planet will eventually die unless we can reignite the sun waaayyyy in the future - something that JWs assume God will do or something).


    We are living in the best time in history. Life is safer, per capita, for people more than any time on this planet. Diseases are contained far better than they ever war. Wars are actually slowing down and have less of an impact on the average individual. People are living longer. People are getting closer towards cracking aging and other things.
    The news, etc. is purposely centered around constantly scaring people so that they tune back in, but stats don't match that. Similarly, religions have to tell people everything is going badly to give their followers a reason to pour themselves into them. But, again, facts don't match this. Look these things up for yourself.

    ^^ Those were responses you received on this very thread.

    Why do humans seem to be so unable to rule themselves.

    My response to that specific question would be:

    Why should mankind be expected to govern ourselves without 'getting it wrong', or taking actions that may later turn out to have negative consequences? (your question seems to imply that you may actually mean 'why does human government always have flaws and make mistakes?', otherwise it doesn't make much sense because humans clearly are able to govern themselves.. We have governments. )

    In the absence of an Omniscient God who wants to sort all our problems out for us, which is like wishing Superman existed, human governments are the best we can do.. Unless you support total anarchy?

    www.civilliberty.about.com/od/historyprofiles/f/why_government.htm

    In future, when you start a topic, maybe just confine your remarks to the subject you wish to discuss? It was your OP and subsequent posts that brought up the very things you claim that you did not want to discuss..

    To then just dismiss everything said in reply to YOUR comments without addressing what was said, really comes across as arrogant and rude.

    I'll leave it there. I hope you find peace in your new belief system.

    Once I embraced my atheism, rather than running from it.. everything became clearer. Perhaps because it was MY belief, not a set of beliefs imposed by a third party.

    Good luck to you. ;)

  • KateWild
    KateWild
    I am not concerned with stories or examples of how they're horrible people. When it comes to personal experiences, I rarely believe them to be 100% true. - Qmf

    Sounds to me like you're perfect for an elders role exactly the qualities WT like. When you start to develop concerns about those that have been mistreated you will be ready to explore you're doubts.

    Nice to see you have started your journey.

    Take care

    Kate xx

  • freemindfade
    freemindfade

    QMF

    You seem most concerned about the "bitterness" of those hurt by actions of the organizations and less about the reality of those actions. That is really unfortunate. My suggestion about your god questions...

    Stay a JW, keep believing the comforting fantasies, and feeding them to other and recruiting more members. Believe those things until you grow old and pass. Don't let go of comforting lies for harsh reality. Wether god is real or not, wether mankind destroys themselves or not, you are better off with your head in the sand.

    I want to give you an example of these actions you seem to believe aren't harmful.

    Lett goes on JW broadcasting to tell all the loyal follower that the organization does not have a pedophile problem, and anyone saying different is "Apostate Lies"

    Jackson is getting grilled by the ARC and admits that it is a problem .

    Its a captive religion and a cult. The organization will inevitably harm members to protect the unity and illusion of the group. I think that is fair thing to be bitter over, and there are all shades of it here, I have a friend who walked away and lives a completely "worldly" life now, with no real consequences from the org. He thinks they are crooks, but I would not call him bitter as say someone who lost their entire family and social circle for merely questioning your cult.

    If you believe the cult is not guilty of harm, you may as well believe in god and paradise and stop worrying about mankind, because they are all the same fairy tale. You are conditioning yourself to ignore evidence, might as well go all in.

  • freemindfade
    freemindfade

    Sorry don't mean to be harsh, but what makes me most bitter of all is willful ignorance. Thats the thing that keeps cults and harmful organization and radical religions n business.

    “We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”

    ― Plato

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose
    I am sorry but y'all are just a little too bitter for me. I could see how this would be a great forum if I was looking for people that could validate my ill-feelings towards the WT.
    But I just don't care about that. Attacks on the GB are ad-hominem.

    It's true you won't find many Watchtower defenders here, because the Watchtower tells people not to come to websites like this, so you are seeing only one side of the argument. If you looked at these "attacks" you would see that in most cases they are completely factual. When posters do say things that are not supported by facts you will often see people correct them.

    I am not concerned with stories or examples of how they're horrible people. When it comes to personal experiences, I rarely believe them to be 100% true.And when people hold resentment and a empathetic audience its only natural for the stories to evolve to the worse case ever.

    Yes, you do hear some bad stories about people being mistreated. One of the purposes of JWN is healing and help to those harmed by the Watchtower, and it is helpful to be able to discuss it. Speaking of wrong things that have been done to you is not bitterness, just stating your truth, something that was not tolerated as a JW. Most posters come here, share their stories, learn all the things they need to know, then move on in their lives. They are not bitter, just wiser.

    I was a JW for thirty years, I saw enough bad things to convince me that most of what is posted here is true. And what do you think is untrue, or not possible? You certainly must know that a lot of families have been torn apart by the practice of disfellowshipping. The many lawsuits and investigations into child sex abuse should convince you they have a problem with that. You cannot deny the organization made many erroneous date predictions and can you honestly say you don't know some have committed suicide or died from refusing a blood transfusion? So what do you think is so exaggerated?

    But, if you have any answers to my questions about the world getting worse and mankind destroying it I would be happy to hear. Please just send me a PM. Thanks.

    It's common for people who have lost faith in the Watchtower to think that if the Watchtower magic fairy dust is not real, then there must be some other magic fairy dust to fix the world. There isn't. Thinking there there must be some better version of magic fairy dust often causes people to just join another cult or abusive group after leaving the JWs, or else give up because they can't find any other magic fairy dust solution.

    This does not mean the problems facing the world are unsolvable, just that there is no one way to fix things, it takes the work of many. As Ghandi said "you must be the change you wish to see in world". So, educate yourself about world issues, advocate for common sense solutions, volunteer for a worthy organization, contribute to worthy causes, vote your conscience.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    questioningmyfaith- "Lurker trying to gain clarity..."

    Can't add anything more that hasn't already been said, except...

    x

    ...now that you've posted, it's pretty clear that you're not a lurker any more. :wink:

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit