Anti-War? Maybe there IS something you can do.... (page 3)

Trauma_Hound

My head is perfectly clear, I'm sorry but "If the war is prevented there will be ALOT more innocent lives lost, " is the most rediculous, illogical statement I've ever heard in my entire life. Why don't you look up and see how many millions of innocent civilians have been killed by the US in Iraq, because of blocking billions in UN aid to the Iraqi people.

Realist

doubla,

as a scientist one has to take all the available evidence and then come up with the most reasonable conclusion. i try to do that.

hussein has shown a very keen sense of how to survive as a leader for the last 30 years or so. he is longer in office than any other current dictator despite vivid opposition to him. i don't see how a suicidal maniac could be that successful. furthermore...he gives of course a flying shit about the iraqis...his main interest is to stay in office. hence i would conclude he was either misinformed about kuwait or he didn't see it as a threat to his rulership.

dubla

realist-

as a scientist one has to take all the available evidence and then come up with the most reasonable conclusion. i try to do that.
hussein has shown a very keen sense of how to survive as a leader for the last 30 years or so. he is longer in office than any other current dictator despite vivid opposition to him. i don't see how a suicidal maniac could be that successful.

so "all the available evidence" is just that hes been a leader for 30 years.....okay. we will leave the whole kuwait issue out of the "available evidence" pile then. you say you dont see how a maniac could be that successful? its pretty simple really. any iraqi that opposes saddam, in any way shape or form, is tortured and/or killed, and the same goes for their family members. makes for a pretty stong presidential campaign, doesnt it?

hence i would conclude he was either misinformed about kuwait or he didn't see it as a threat to his rulership.

he was misinformed? youve been telling us how intelligent this longtime leader is, and with an issue as big as invading a neighboring country, he was simply misinformed? hmmm. or theres your other option.....he didnt see the wrath of the united states (and the rest of the world for that matter) "as a threat to his rulership". hmmm......both of these choices leaves one to believe maybe all his marbles arent there after all? but no, hes perfectly logical....it was just a minor oversight, lol.

like i said, your opinion, no backing.

t h-

My head is perfectly clear

from the rantings of yours that ive read, including our last conversation, and your dealings with this board in general, id guess otherwise.

aa

Edited by - dubla on 12 February 2003 10:49:56

Realist

so wait a second...if he is indeed suicidal why doesn't he attack the US? or just shoot himself? if he is not power hungry but suicidal why is he ruling this country? why kill his opposition?

what exactly do you think his motives are?

dubla

th-

is the most rediculous, illogical statement I've ever heard in my entire life.

oh come now, surely youve heard more ridiculous statements than that, sometime in your entire life.

Why don't you look up and see how many millions of innocent civilians have been killed by the US in Iraq, because of blocking billions in UN aid to the Iraqi people.

first off, that blood is on saddams hands.....if he gave a damn about his own people, he couldve prevented any aid blocking, and perhaps spared himself one or two of his palaces in order to feed a few hundred thousand people or so. secondly, why dont you look up and see how many innocent iraqi civilians have been killed, directly by saddam himself. imagine saddam stays in power for another 20 years, and do the math on how many more he will kill, personally (if the war is prevented, as lucy said). now take that number to zero if hes taken out of power.

aa

Xander

youve claimed all along that saddam isnt suicidal, and he is nothing short of 100% logical....yet when you are faced with obvious proof that he indeed was very illogical, and suicidal, with his decisions about kuwait

Actually, the Kuwait case is PROOF he isn't suicidal.

He wanted to gain more power in the region. Remember, we (the US) backed him in the 80s. He still wanted to make sure we wouldn't retaliate, so he got US APPROVAL TO INVADE KUWAIT. Granted, it was approval from a previous administration, but as far as he knew, he A) was a friend of the US and B) had US approval for the invasion.

And only THEN did he even invade a neighboring country.

This doesn't sound like a raving madman about to start lobbing nukes at every other country - ESPECIALLY the US. Power-hungry? Sure! But part of staying in power is not pissing off every other nation on the planet. That's a lesson at least one other country I can think of hasn't quite learned yet.

dubla

realist-

so wait a second...if he is indeed suicidal why doesn't he attack the US?

if and when he gets the means, i believe he will (directly or indirectly). perhaps he already has.....youve seen the story on his migrating birds infected with west nile virus, havent you? a bit far fetched, maybe, but you never know.

or just shoot himself?

i dont think hes suicidal in the general meaning of the term, or obviously he wouldve killed himself long ago....i think you know thats not what i meant though. hes suicidal in the sense that he doesnt have all his marbles, and he would die if he knew he could take the right amount of his enemies with him.

if he is not power hungry

when did i say he wasnt power hungry? i think thats pretty obvious. you can have more than one motive as a manical dictator, cant you?

what exactly do you think his motives are?

power surely, greed definitely, blood, no doubt.

aa

dubla

xander-

Actually, the Kuwait case is PROOF he isn't suicidal.
He wanted to gain more power in the region. Remember, we (the US) backed him in the 80s. He still wanted to make sure we wouldn't retaliate, so he got US APPROVAL TO INVADE KUWAIT. Granted, it was approval from a previous administration, but as far as he knew, he A) was a friend of the US and B) had US approval for the invasion.

actually, you missed the entire point. i wasnt saying he was suicidal for invading kuwait, i was saying he was obviously mad/suicidal/illogical for not pulling out when faced with the wrath of the entire world against him. how that proves that he isnt suicidal, as you claim, i have no idea.

aa

Edited by - dubla on 12 February 2003 11:17:18

dubla

. Power-hungry? Sure! But part of staying in power is not pissing off every other nation on the planet.

if saddam was/is so concerned with not pissing off every other nation on the planet, then why his constant non-compliance with u.n. regulations throughout the years? if he is so concerned with keeping everyone happy, then why didnt he simply abandon all his wmd plans over a decade ago?

aa

Realist

youve seen the story on his migrating birds infected with west nile virus, havent you? a bit far fetched, maybe, but you never know.

ok that is far fetched ! :) it seems the Us propaganda really gets out of hand.

hes suicidal in the sense that he doesnt have all his marbles, and he would die if he knew he could take the right amount of his enemies with him.

hmmm i am not convinced of that. he is not religious...so that motive doesn't exist. as you said..he is power hungry and greedy...two adjectives that do not apply to a fanatic. and he seems to worry a great deal about himself.

hitler for instance was indeed a maniac. he faught for a crazy idea. in contrast i don't see hussein fighting for any idea or ideal.

and if you look at the situation...what exactly did he loose in the kuwait war? nothing really. he was right after all...he is still in power. 12 years after the war!

, then why didnt he simply abandon all his wmd plans over a decade ago

hmmm its seems he has. the inspectors didn't find anything ...and the evidence shown by powell is more than weak.

Edited by - realist on 12 February 2003 11:22:6

Anti-War? Maybe there IS something you can do....

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