Does God exist outside of Time?

by D wiltshire 60 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  D wiltshire

  Does God exist out side of our dimension of time?
  Our view of time has changed over the centuries. For the longest time,. Time and Space were thought of as "givens" that were always just there.
  Then along come better and better methods of measuring time, finally Einstein tells us that time is not the same everywhere, and that both space and time can be altered by speed and gravity.
  The fact that time slows down as we approach the speed of light has been proven by many experiments and is not in doubt. It has also been proven that gravity slows down time. Thus time can be warped(gravity), slowed or even stopped completely. Time therefore is a thing that can be changed.
  Our Universe had a moment of Creation is no longer disputed. The moment of creation is also the moment that both Space and Time had their beginning.
  God on the other hand had no beginning he also knows from the beginning the finally.

  Here our some questions that can be raised that I would appreciate your comments on.
  1) Does God even need time or space to exist?
  2) Does he look at time the same way we do?
  3) Does he view past, present, and future as all the same?
  I answer these Questions this way.
  1] No he does not exist in these 4 dimensions.
  2] He can understand the way we view time since he made us, but his view is not the same as ours.
  3] I think to him past, present, and future are viewed as one because he exists outside our 4 dimensions.
  
  These are debatable questions with no authoritive answers from mere humans. None the less I consider them worthy questions for Christians to entertain.
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  Elsewhere

  Once you find a way to detect and measure the deity, you should be able to conduct an appropriate experiment.

  Until that time, you are just speculating.
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  metatron

  Read Tippler's The Physics of Immortality

  He theorizes that God exists in the future when all consciousness is merged together
  thruout the universe. Meanwhile, "He" works backward thru history aligning events
  towards the outcome. The book is a wild ride. I like his take on 'Yahweh' as telling
  Moses his name means He causes to become because that's what he's doing thru emerging
  history. Technically, Tippler might be an atheist because God doesn't exist - yet!

  metatron
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  Introspection

  ... is there any reason why this thread is under Adults and disagreements?

  Anyways, those are interesting questions. I can't help but notice how much separation is implied when we speak in these terms, though.

  From the perspective of oneness, how is time even a meaningful concept? As you pointed out, if past, present and future are viewed as one, then there is no distinction between one moment and the next as we typically do. This would in turn render the second question meaningless, because there is basically no such thing as time from that perspective. As for the first question, obviously one would have to say "no" by virtue of the accepted definition of God. However, I think it would be a mistake to separate God and things that exist in relativity. I mean, how does something completely separate has an influence upon another? As you can probably guess, I am not going by the typical idea of God that most people have in mind. In any case, just as God would not need time, I don't think a Christian needs to entertain these thoughts, even if they may be worthy ones. (nothing wrong with it, just saying it's not necessary) Just as time is something that can be changed, so are our minds, and as such they cannot contain ultimate reality, which would be unchanging.
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  willy_think

  Hi D,
  interesting Questions.
  If I were to start with the given that there is a creator God and he created this universe that is the measure of time and time that is the measure of the universe then.

  1) Does God even need time or space to exist?

  A. No he was. Does the potter need the pot?

  2) Does he look at time the same way we do?

  A. yes he does look at time the same way we do, every way that we don't and ways that we would not call looking, perceiving, experiencing or understanding.

  3) Does he view past, present, and future as all the same?

  A. No he does not view past present and future as all the same. he "views" all things as they "are" past present and future. I hesitate to use the words "view" and "see" when talking about God since expressions like those tend to imply a limited perspective that I would never equate with God. "all that was and will be are eternally present" as in eternally before God, is how I would say it.
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  RubaDub

  Yes, He exists outside of Time.

  He regularly contributes to Newsweek also.

  *****Rub a Dub
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  willy_think

  Hi Elsewhere

  
  "Once you find a way to detect and measure the deity, you should be able to conduct an appropriate experiment. Until that time, you are just speculating."

  This one got me thinking about the theory of electricity. We can detect and measure it. however no one has ever been able to conduct an experiment that can tell us just what the hell electricity is. To this very day the top thinkers in the world can't tell us what electricity is despite exacting measurements of it. I can hardly believe that detecting and measuring God would teach us more then we can learn about electricity.
• 

  rem

  D,

  1) Does God even need time or space to exist?

  Who knows? Do gorfs need time or space to exist?

  2) Does he look at time the same way we do?

  Not sure. Maybe some gods see time and space differently than others. Zeus may see things differently than Brahmmah.

  3) Does he view past, present, and future as all the same?

  See above.

  The problem is that even if one or many gods exist outside of our space and time, there is no way that they can interact with our universe. It would even be impossible for them to observe our universe. Such gods may as well not even exist from our perspective.

  rem
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  Introspection

  D, I do like the 'wonder about the universe' thing you have going on. I thought that a simpler way of putting it might be the difference between not being limited to and existing outside of. I can hear sounds, but just because I am not limited by that sense it doesn't mean I am somehow separate from that way of perception, I also have vision and other senses.
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  D wiltshire

  I would like to thank every one for their different insights. It is fun to consider this subject even if it is just speculative.

  Lately I have been reading alot about quantum mechanics, and it seems that sub-atomic particles(or waves) have a means of communication that is instantaneous or takes no-time. This has been proven by experiments done in the 80's and early 90's. These sub-atomic particles seem to be able to travel back in time.Einstien had a hard time accepting Quantum Mechanics and termed it "spokey action at a distance".

  As Albert E. has shown by his famous "thought experiments" that time is different for everyone and everything, and that there is no such thing a "simultaneity". Time runs faster the slower you go, time runs slower on the sun than on the earth. In fact time even stops on the "event horizon" of a black hole. That being true then if the creator lives outside the universe he therefore must live outside our dimesion of time. Or if he is everywhere at once then time must not be divided for him by past, present or future, because in side Black Holes time stops, and since time is just another dimension like the 3 other dimensions of space then if he is everywhere at once he would be in all of time (past present and future).